I've been reflecting on the 7sp aspect and it may actually be a plus for me. I would normally only use 1st to 5th, since I don't drive on the highway much and I tend to keep the revs high, so the tighter gear ratios are an advantage, especially with the lower power of the base 991.

I'll try to check out the PSE sound at some point, though I generally prefer a less loud car. My 'spirited' driving already draws too much attention as it is.

 

From my experience, the first 6 gears are the same as those that I had in my 997.2. 7th is fabulous for highway driving, drops the revs to about 2200 at 65-70.

 

Given that I was surprised myself (but hopeful), I figured my review would be a bit of a shocker.

I think the single biggest factor was the MT, which makes a huge difference for me. The simpler passive suspension may have also helped in providing dynamics closer to what I like, though I'd need to do a back to back comparison with PASM to be sure. PDCC would add another dimension of active control, and I'm not sure that I'd like it, but I'll try to keep an open mind until I try it.

Overall, I'm now more hopeful that a 991 GT3 could turn out to be a viable option for me. But displacing either of the current Porsches won't be easy. We'll see, fantasizing and anticipation are sometimes half the fun.

 

I did test drive the PDK and it like many people have posted before it has a Jekyll and Hyde type personality. Either really tame or a crazy beast. The 7MT gives a more consistent and spirited driving experience. Again no offense to the PDK drivers I understand all the positives but for me the 7 MT just gives me more control without having to choose between Jekyll or Hyde. Sorry for the strange analogy but it seems to fit.

With regards to PSE is the ability to switch it off by the push a button. When your in the mood to really hear the engine roar it is fun to know it can be accessed by a press of a button.

 

Completely agree with you Jekyll and Hyde comment and I haven't really found a place to use sport+ with full acceleration in the 997.2S- in fact I've never found a place to use launch control. You could lose your license in 6 or 7 seconds. I may have to go to the track just for that.

ChuckJ

 

I saw some nice old 911s at a cars & coffee today, and I also see some at autocross. Hopefully, I'll be able to finagle my way into driving one of them soon.

 

Out of curiosity, I just went back and re-read the Evo reviews of the 991.

They're generally similar to my review, and they reinforce my suspicion that leaving out PASM and PDCC may make the car feel more engaging. A nice thing, since that also saves money.

Reading the reviews also reminded me that, when I drove the 991 today, it felt fast and impressive, but I didn't get any significant indication that the car was rear-engined until I was pushing it hard, and even then the indication was limited. This of course relates to the point about the general difference in driving dynamics.

It also relates to the point that the driving dynamics of the 991 are now closer to the Cayman. You can judge for yourself whether that's good or bad, and some people do certainly like the Cayman more than the 911. But this closing of the gap between the Cayman and 911 suggests that the new Cayman more be more of a rival to the 991 than the old Cayman was to the 997. It could be something like a smaller and more nimble 991 without a back seat and at lower cost - a potentially compelling proposition, IMO. A corollary is that people who used to prefer the Cayman may now be more receptive to getting a 911.

Also, the same issue of Evo notes that there's almost no performance gap between the 991 cab and coupe. Factor in the great looks of the cab and the awesome experience of driving top-down in nice weather, and I think it would be very difficult for me not to choose the cab over the coupe.

 

I didn't realize that you own a 997.2with manual transmission yet oroginally drove a PDK 991 . That in itself is a major game change beyond the actual car .

I also feel that in order to compare apples to apples you would have to drive an "S " as you currently own an "S".

I do agree that the 991 has more luxurious amenties . Of course that changes the car but a 996 was more luxurious than a 993 and the 997 topped the 996 . You might view the new interior as a set back but it can also be viewed as a growth spurt .


I am not sure about how a 997 dances compared to a 991 . In my opinion the yellow 997 in this clip looks very sloppy in contrast to the 991 . How often do we see enormous effort and expense placed into suspension upgrades for performance ease .... and now porsche offers it and some reject it ?

 

BTW Manifold -

Three test drives ? LOL .

You do realize that every day that you keep the current 997 it depreciates further and will cost even more to buy the 991 (which apparently you seem to enjoy test driving pretty often ).

Of course one can :
1) sell the 997 and sit on the sidelines without a Porsche altogether
2) keep the 997 and rationalize why the 991 is a no deal (but test driving it often)
3) drive the 997 but want the 991 and write lots of posts hoping that a consensus (who BTW also own a 997 and can relate) agree with you
4) just go out and buy a 991

 

i read that they moved the engine of the 991 about 2.5 inches forward, so you are right, that the weight distribution of the new 911 is much closer to a midengined car, but it´s still rear engined! the benefit is, that you get 2 additional (tiny) seats.

Porsche 997 C2 : 38% front, 62% rear
Porsche 997 C4 : 40% front, 60% rear
Porsche Cayman: 45% front, 55% rear
Porsche 991 C2: ~40% front, 60% rear

the Cayman still has got the better weight distribution and the all new Cayman should be the better concept. BUT the problem is (as you already mentioned) that Porsche doesn`t give it the power it deserves and it hasn`t got that iconic 911 touch. The upcoming Cayman will be the best performance car in its class and it will be a real bargain but it still lacks than iconic feel of a 911.

 

Agreed that driving the manual is a major game change. I sort of anticipated it, which is why I eagerly looked forward to trying the manual, but even I was surprised at how much difference it made. I'm a manual guy right to the core (in sports cars, and assuming that I don't have to deal with lots of bad traffic).

Also agreed that I ideally need to compare with an S, and I look forward to trying a manual S. My main concern is that if an S can't be had without PASM (?), that could take away some of the driving dynamics I seek (I have PASM with the 997, but the dynamics are fine).

I don't mind the greater luxury. The key for me is the driving experience.

Agreed that PDCC does a good job of keeping the car more level, and probably improves speed a bit too, but I'm concerned that it may make the dynamics of the car feel more artificial and 'forced', plus it may diminish the driver's sense of how close he is to the limit (again, I haven't tried PDCC, and am judging based on theory and comments of some reviewers). And no 997 has ever felt sloppy to me, so I think the slalom video makes things look worse than they actually are.

The dancing of the 997 is very evident to me, and it's what I love most about the car. It relates to point that the 997 feels overtly rear-engined pretty much all of the time, whereas the 991 feels only slightly rear-engined, and mainly when driven quite hard. Again, some people will legitimately prefer the feel of the 991, or won't notice the difference so they'll be more interested in other aspects of the car (speed, luxury, sound, looks, etc.).

 

That's just the tip of the iceberg, I've done dozens of test drives over the years. That's what happens when your office is right next to the Porsche dealer and get to know him well. Plus I tend to be fairly thorough and patient before making these sorts of decisions, so it takes a while for me to cross options off the list.

Since I'm enjoying the 997 more, there's no incentive to replace it with a 991 right now. I have the 997 and it's not that easy to replace with something truly equivalent, whereas the 991 will be there whenever I want it. Plus, I'd prefer to wait for more 991 variants to come out, hoping that a "gotta have it" variant emerges. Maybe it will be the GT3 - fingers crossed.

 

In addition to the more even weight distribution (I won't necessarily say better), the 991 also has the much longer wheelbase, wider tracks, and whatever else they've done that I'm not aware of. IMO, the net result is driving dynamics that now feel as close to the Cayman as the 997, maybe even closer to the Cayman. That means less of the iconic 911 feel but, again, I'm not faulting people for preferring the feel of the 991 (or Cayman). My wife says 'the Cayman feels more smooth and the 997 feels more edgy'.

 

This video has been shown numerous times and is not relevant to normal and track driving. Maybe it's means something if you autocross. Also with out knowing age of the cars, settings, tire wear the video is useless.

No driver on a track will be turning the wheel that quickly unless ghe is a complete novice and then he can sit back and let the car do the driving. Now that's exciting.

I read a review recently where they said the PDCC did little for the dynamics of the car. With a good driver that's probable true. A good driver will keep the car balanced without the need for electronics. And will have more fun doing so.

Now if your racing or want to talk about lap times it might be good. But I am waiting for some real life to confirm this.

I've been to 3 DE's so for this year. Over 300 cars and not one 991 yet.

 

Some more parameters:

Base Cayman
Wheelbase: 95.1
Front Track: 58.7
Rear Track: 60.4

Base 997
Wheelbase: 92.5
Front Track: 58.5
Rear Track: 60.4

Base 991
Wheelbase: 96.5
Front Track: 60.3
Rear Track: 59.8

The tracks of the 997 and Cayman were about the same, but the Cayman had a much longer wheelbase than the 997. I bet that will surprise many people.

Front track is now much wider on the 991, but a bit narrower rear track. And 991 wheelbase is now longer than the Cayman and much longer than the 997.

So I think the longer wheelbase (and more even weight distribution) is much of the reason for the more Caymanesque feel, and the wider front track (combined with slightly narrower rear track) is much of the reason for the different lateral dynamics of the 991 and its feeling of being more planted and stable.