I am interested in hearing from the guys that have gone from either a GT3 or GTS to a 991S I daily drove a 07 GT3 for 37k miles or so and am ready to get something else. I am looking at an 11 GTS PDK or a 991S PDK. For those of you that have had these cars what do you recommend and why? What are the major differences? Do you miss your GT3 or GTS? Any regrets in the move from either car? I will test drive both cars, but I really want to hear from the guys who have made the switch and have put a few miles on their 991 to really have a good idea of how they feel about their move. Thanks so much for the feedback.

 

I moved from a 997.2 GT3 to my 991S and have absolutely zero regrets. I do think thats its important to chose the 991 spec very carefully. In my case I wanted as close to GT3 like handling as possible but a car which is entirely useable everyday and with creature comforts that I missed. I couldn't be happier with my choice of options with the main being: PDK - PDCC - SPASM - SChrono plus, and PSE.

The PDK was a big decision and one I have no regrets with on the 991S... I actually really like it as opposed to the previous version (997) of it which I hated. For your comparison I also think the sport chrono plus is a must primarily due to the inclusion of the Dynamic Engine Mounts which make a difference in handling characteristics.

IMO and for me PDCC has been the big surprise. I took the 991S to the Dragon (US129) a few weeks back. Its a road I've driven with all my P cars including the GT3 and know it quite well. The way in which the 991 handled the corners and road in general was unbelievable! With almost zero lateral diving the car handled sublimely and took nothing away from the driving experience. I was in grin heaven! Even if I take into account what we all know about the changes and enhancements of the new 991 a lot of what I have experienced in terms of handling can be attributed to the PDCC. As you know, there has been a fair bit of controversy and discussion on this feature so this is just my ipression of it.

In summary, the 991S is different to its predecessors which includes the GT3 but I really have not missed the GT3 at all.

There is one other option... would you consider a wait for the the 991 GT3?

 

I would love to wait for the GT3, but it seems so far away. Have you driven a GTS, really curious on your opinion having owned a GT3? I found a great deal on a low mileage 2011. Also in your opinion is pasm a must on the 991? I found a smoking deal on a 2012 and it has everything you mentioned without the PASM.

 

Where are the differences between the 997.2 PDK and the 991? I have 17k miles on a 997.2S PDK (with SC) and have driven at least 100 miles on a 991 S PDK and found no difference.

 

They do speak of re-coding the PDK control functions, but I don't remember anything specific, Tony.

I only have one day's experience on a 997 PDK, and I had too much going on to explore the modes, but I have this sense that they changed the programming to tighten up normal mode. Possibly it bothered the designers that so many people said Carreras didn't feel Porsche-like until they hit the sport button, but I'm just speculating.

Also... this is more subtle, but may be worth reporting. Owners of 997 PDK's here on the forums almost all say they use manual mode to increase the entertainment value. I did that for the first day on my 991 PDK because I wanted to control the rpm more closely for break-in purposes. But these last two days, I've been alternating between three ways to use it: full manual; automatic with my commanding shifts when I want to override; and just letting the computer shift while I focus on the suspension and steering to evaluate those questions we've been asking. I could not honestly agree that it's a boring car in full automatic. The computer uses good heuristics to choose shifts, and it's actually quite entertaining, even in normal mode. It feels like this PDK shifts at the times I would choose just for the fun of it if you see what I mean. Not only when the car wants more torque or needs more torque, but when it is more fun to have the extra torque. I can't say the 997 PDK wouldn't have done that in sport or sport plus because I never tried those modes, but it sure didn't behave that way in normal mode. I remember making some nasty remarks about its normal mode behavior. The word 'buick' might even have been uttered. Unfair, but not even remotely my thought when I forgot and left this 991 PDK in normal mode.

Subtle, as I say, but given the nearly-universal preference for manual mode in owners of 997 PDK's it may be they've changed the shift logic slightly, making it more acceptable to picky-traditional sports car owners like me. Well, presumably others as well. I don't mean to imply they designed this model just for me. That would be... unlikely. Wouldn't it? Okay, I know. It's a new-owner crush. I'll get over it. Probably. In a few years.

Gary

 

Tony, to answer your question, the 991 PDK is a huge leap forward over the 997 in all three modes, but you notice it more in Normal mode because the differential is greater there.

And, Gary, I agree with you that the damned car always seems to know what gear I want to be in. Again, this was hardly true of the 997 but it's frankly uncanny in the 991. I tool around in full automatic a heck of a lot more than I did in the 997 simply because I don't seem to need to overide or anticipate the transmission's choices. Whether that is a good thing is for another thread, so let's not go there.

OP, I went from GTS to 991. They are different animals. Do I miss the visceral connection served up by the GTS and its lightness of foot? Of course. Am I glad to enjoy comfort and quiet in the 991. Equally so. Is the 991 still a sports car? Hell yeah.

As yesterday's car, the GTS will be far better value for money, and an exemplary version of the 997. The 991 is easier to live with day to day.

Both are great choices. Try them back to back and choose which you prefer. Don't pay too much attention to us junkies.

 

I know the 997.2 PDK inside-out and the 991 PDK too, as I have tested it extensively based on my 997.2 experience. As Gary says, the PDK (997.2 or 991) is not your father's Buick Hydramatic. It has several operating modes and sub-modes thereof which are not so obvious.

In any case, the 991 'changes' were supposed to soften shifts in comfort mode - limo driving. That may have happened at the code level, but I hear reports that due to self-adapting those may actually be undone by specific drivers' styles, but I digress.

I agree that in spirited driving, especially tight canyon driving, D-mode (SC Sport) is telepathic and surpasses any manual shifter (I do not care who he may be). And Gary is correct again that even in SC Normal, D-mode can be effective if the throttle is used judiciously, as the PDK adapts shift points to the driving style. But of course, SC Sport maps shifts to a far sportier level.

Contrary to the usual crowds I use now M-mode only around slow city city driving, the opposite the crowds do (they use D mode). There's a reason for that and it goes beyond shifting issues...

I restate - any dynamic differences in PDK behavior between a 997.2 and a 991 is a myth as far as I am concerned.

 

A leap forward where?

Is the 991 PDK any different than a 997.2 PDK when engaged? No!

Does the 991 PDK shift faster (measurably) than the 997.2PDK? No!

Is the 991 PDK smoother shifting (read slower/feathered shifts) in Normal mode. Yes, it does have one shifting map which does that, but because of its adaptive shifting design, often drivers stray from that... and then complain that it is no longer smooth. This is dealt with in service bays in this country everyday...

I suggest you drive your PDK extensively in many road patterns for 5-6k miles and then drive a 997.2 PDK and see for yourself... Doing that, you must concentrate on PDK differences and not on car's driving dynamics, which are very different.

Note: Measurably and effectively I see no differences. However, the ear plays tricks and the 991 Symposer psycho-acosutics brings an immediacy to PDK shifts that many may interpret as quicker... The Symposer in-cabin acoustic channel psycho acoustics is a well known scientific placebo. Easy test - plug your ears and notice the perceived difference.

 

It appears that there was something wrong in your previous car. My 997.2 PDK shifts telepathically, and yes, I know how to shift manually and know when a shift is needed. It could be that you old PDK had a programming error...

 

Adias, I've been busy and didn't have time to reply to your questions but I've skimmed through the answers others have posted and also your replies. You obviously are convinced that there is no "real" difference between the 997.2 and 991 PDK ! I disagree. I state this after owning a 997.2 C4S and disliking the PDK in it so much that I sold it in a couple of months. I do however totally agree with your comments about driving the car extensively and find out for yourself... did you do that on the 991S? I assume not.

Btw, I have covered a few thousand miles on both generations of PDK and my opinions reflect that. I'll summarise... the pdk on the 997.2 totally sucked and on the 991 is superior in every respect! So a leap forward? Erm... hell yeah!

 

Huge difference, much faster and more intuitive shifting on the 991.

 

You disagree, I disagree. Perhaps all 997.2 PDK I drove were exceptional and all you drove were mediocre.

No big deal in any case.

 

Tony, stop kidding yourself. The 997.2 PDK is good. But the 991 (and I've owned both) is in a different league. As all the professional reviewers agree.

 

This is so true, I am no expert reviewer but its very obvious the big difference between 997.2 and 991 PDK.

 

How is it better? Please be specific. What different aspects make it better?

Is it a measurable shift time?
Is it a measurable transmission efficiency?
Does it upshift better? and why?
Does it downshift better? and in what way?
Is it better in D mode? and in what way?
Is it better in M mode? and in what way?
Is the auto shift learning mode better? in what way?
What mapping differences in Normal, Sport, Sport Plus?
Smoothness or firmness differences? Why one is better than the other?
Limo ride driving behavior differences?
Canyon driving behavior differences?

I'm always eager to learn, but please let's talk verifiable details.