If this is the definition of "fast", then I do not care. It seems all about ego or proving something to oneself vs driving pleasure.
I am at the track for a DE for 3 days. I am having a total blast, the car is fun to rotate and slingshot around a corner. its chassis inspires a lot of confidence ... and BTW, I have not had to give a single point by yesterday in my slow 991S

This 'slow' vs 'fast' conversation is futile and miles away from what the OP intent was. Let's stop this thread jacking!

Cheers

Serge

 

Thanks. I don't mind the thread-jack, but I really wanna emphasize that this wan't my intend as Serge stated correctly.

I think we can all agree on the fact that the term 'slow' is all relative, and if 99% of the "normal" motorists (the rest) would read this discussion they'd find us and kick our a$$es.

 

[QUOTE=SM_ATL;3851139 ... and BTW, I have not had to give a single point by yesterday in my slow 991S

Cheers

Serge[/QUOTE]

Congratulations, Serge. It''s always refreshing to hear from someone who has the skill and know-how to fully realize the potential of this wonderful car.

 

1) The original post did in fact have an entire section titled "speed and power " and placing a supercharger in an M3 is precisely geared towards those goals . I dont consider addressing those points as "thread jacking".

2) Regarding "ego" -The original post also stated that the supercharged M3 was equated with being the "local hero" vs "d..bag " . Those are his words not mine . In fact I expresed that "at my age image is not important" .

3) I am glad you had a total blast and never once said the 991 S was anything other than an exceptional car but i refuse to sit in denial about placing it as the number 1 in some of these categories without calling it out.

 

Absolutely true, and I don't really consider this speed discussion as a thread-jack since I brought it up in the first place, however it wasn't really my intention to focus on it. Again, anytime you come from a purpose built (modded) car to a stock car with 300 horses less you will feel it, and again, that doesn't make the 911 slow. My M3 felt slow against the AMS GT-R with the Alpha 9 package. And again, I got over it fairly quickly.

The section regarding how other motorists see you is somewhat irrelevant since it is mostly based on your location and your perception. In the end it hardly matters. And driving and modding these cars we all couldn't care less in the end.

I agree with your last point - although the 911 is the yardstick and benchmark for many (most) criteria, I think we are allowed to point out its (very few) shortcomings. There is stiff competition out there, and although the 911 is king, it is healthy to always watch your back.

 

When people post that a car that hasn't been broken in or run over 4200 feels slow, they set themselves up. The Porsche doesn't come on until after 4200.

In my E92 days, I rode in a friends FI M3 and it was an exciting ride because it spun the tires in every gear and was all over the road like an old rat rod. While it impresses friends, if you take it to a track (either drag strip or road course), it's not so good. It depends on what floats your boat however the 911 is made to be fast on the track which means speed with control and without undo drama. While doing some track time at Spring Mountain, they told me they didn't like having tuner track days because a large percentage of the cars blew parts and oil all over the track after a couple of laps. The Porsche is a complete car and not everyone appreciates that fact.

 

I do appreciate the fact, trust me. And yes, I was setting myself up with that comment, but I did state that it was unfair to compare a modded car to a stock car that needs to be broken-in. I truly think we are all on the same page here.

 

Very true and let's not forget this car in particular really opens up at around 10,000+ miles. The deciding factor for me was the opportunity to wring out a dealer demo 2012 991S for several hours. The car had 11,000 miles on the odometer and it was very quick by any standards. My two previous cars were a ZR1 and a Z06, so I have some perspective.
When I went back with my wife for a second test drive they set me up with a brand new car that had 11 miles on the odometer and it was not same experience. As a matter of fact, it would have taken a leap of faith for me to commit to a 991S had my only drive been with this brand new one.

 

This whole discussion about what's fast and what's faster certainly has its place when talking about high performance cars. In my humble opinion, when evaluating a sports car, there's so much more that needs to be considered when picking the right car. Last week I just called Woodhouse Dodge to cancel my place marker for the new 2013 SRT Viper GTS and return of my $1000 deposit. This beast weighs less than 3300 lbs has 640 hp and 600 lb. tq. In the hands of race car driver Randy Pobst it just broke the Laguna Seca track record for production cars and will run the 1/4 mile in 11.1 at 130 mph +/-.
I guess I need to have my head examined because the Viper is superior in every objective measurable standard. However, there is more to a car than the sum of its parts. Subjectively, the 991S is superior in every way except in the area of acceleration. How do I know this? Over the last 8 months I have become friends with Ralph Gilles, President and CEO of SRT and when SRT was performing their high altitude testing of the new Viper I hooked up with members of the SRT engineering team, including Dick Winkles, Chief power train engineer and spent about an hour as a passenger in this incredible beast.
And so it is that I have selected the 991S over the Viper and in the next few weeks I will start my new love affair.
By the way if someone wants my place marker pm me.

 

I understand totally. The Viper is a fantastic machine, finally come of age.
The 991S however, has no peer for the breadth of what it provides, easy, every day, every way.

 

I keep going back and forth in my own thoughts about the 991S . That's what keeps me waiting to see the Turbo S . I feel that the Turbo S will have the missing link of acceleration but on the other hand it would have to be incredible to convince me to sell my EVT700 997tt . Part of me vasilates with trading in my relatively new and low mile M3 (my dd) for a 991S and keeping my Turbo but the extra space of the 3 series BMW is so useful . I do have a new Cayenne too but having two cars with space is needed for me. So I drive my cars more and simply wait on the sideliness because all three have 15K miles or less .

I wonder if the OP misses some of the space that he had in his M3 . It's the one topic in his comparision that he did not mention .

I think my issue with the 991S is that i do like the car a lot but not enough to make the move and buy it . I feel it is a fantastic car but amongst 911 cars it is sandwiched between greatness where the Turbo is faster and the Gt3 is not only faster but also has better agility and precision . I feel that if i am going to settle into being pratical why buy a 911 at 120K ? I feel at 100K + I want to buy into the absolute best and its not like the Turbo and Gt3 are so far priced above it .

I may end up with a 991S at some point .. but only if i decide to keep my Turbo and have both . I just cant see having two Turbo 911 cars .. it's not only irrational but its extravagant and impractical .. so i have to either do nothing or pick one .

So far I have not bought one . But I do think about it more than any other car.

 

Space isn't an issue, and I love to be back in a smaller car. The 991 is a pretty practical car and a great daily driver, I think this is another area where the 911 shines - a sports car you can drive everyday.

BTW, I think 2 911 turbos in the garage is totally acceptable.

 

I totally get the OP's position on this.
I was running a V12 Vantage and an R8V10. The R 8V10 was obviously the faster, more accomplished car, but I preferred the experience of the V12 Vantage more. Believe it or not, it's a more raw experience, more noise, lower end torque (around town) and a loser rear end.

I sold the very awesome R8 V10 for a lowly Porsche Cayman R and could not be happier with my decision. The car is telepathic, it is intimate and it was built for one thing.

Sometimes how fast a car goes is not as important as HOW a car goes fast.





.

 

Well, that took forever. But it is done - I reached 2000 miles, and Porsche officially allows me now to beat on her, and she had it f@cking coming.

I would like to revisit my comment regarding the 991S feeling slow compared to my previous supercharged M3 - I take it back. **** is getting real after leaving the 6K rpm mark, and in perfect unison - my sphincter tightens as the gates of hell open up.

The delivery of speed compared to my M3 feels very different however, it isn't so much that you get pressed into the seat, but rather that it amplifies the lightness of the car, you feel like you are about to take off. And combine that with my Sharkwerks/FVD exhaust combo that left me without mufflers all together - the acceleration is accompanied by a deafening Formula One scream. And by deafening I mean other cars pulling over to the right to let me pass... on 4 separate occasions. I always reward them by lifting my right foot to salute them with some crazy back-fires, burbles and flames.

Driving this car is an event, it is a toy, and nothing else. It renders the driver into an 8 year old boy that realized that his drawn-on cardboard box is indeed a spaceship.

The sensation of driving this car f@ck-*****-out is a wonderful combination of sheer joy and absolute ***-sweat producing terror; a symphony of fantastic terror.

Coming up: Dealing with Mike's new M5. Yes, there will be racing, and probably some **** leakage.