Porsche 991 base at Nurburgring
Subscribe
Quote:
Guilty as charged.
And in some country, the price difference between a base and S without any options is $40k. That's a lot of cash saved.Originally Posted by Aranthir
"there are lots of base owners that wanted a great drive but aren't concerned about drag racing, impressing the kid next door or internet banter."Guilty as charged.
Quote:
If we are silly enough to pay so much for a car, we don't deserve any sympathy Originally Posted by pyramid
With all the price point talks, I feel bad for Singaporeans who must pay more than usd400k in order to "just" have a 991 C2.
Quote:
ChuckJ
IIRC in the low 7:50'sOriginally Posted by ChuckJ
I had a 997.2 C2S and perceive that, but does anyone know a Nurburgring number?ChuckJ
I hope to go to the Ring w/ my car someday. Surfer's have Hawaii's North shore. We have the RING. It is our Mecca.
Quote:
IIRC in the low 7:50's
I hope to go to the Ring w/ my car someday. Surfer's have Hawaii's North shore. We have the RING. It is our Mecca.
Don't get me wrong... I love driving there. I've been lucky enough to do a racing school there and I definitely will go there once in a while when I have my 911. But I don't care if my C4S is a few seceond faster or slower than other cars there in the hands of an experienced racing driver. I just wanna have fun and drive as fast as I can, inside my own borders of capabillity and safety.Originally Posted by kosmo69
IIRC in the low 7:50's
I hope to go to the Ring w/ my car someday. Surfer's have Hawaii's North shore. We have the RING. It is our Mecca.
But there are so many magnificent tracks around the world. it's not ONLY the Ring. Spa Francorchams, Laguna Seca, Silverstone, Imola... And lots of other iconic tracks to drive.
Suzy991
Quote:
Base carrera is a perfect car, but it is NOT the same as an S.... Base car has a 3.4 boxer while the S has a 3.8 boxer. Both engines have a different character. IMO the base Carrera with it's lower powerd 3.4 engine is the most purest 911 at this moment. When the 911 was introduced back in 1963 it was also "underpowered" compared to other sportscars, but made up by the great chassis, allthough the engine was in the wrong place.
The 3.4 boxer, you have to keep high in revs to get the most out of it and when driving it hard, it feels great. The S has some more torque and is an easier engine for lets call it "GT cruisin". With the S you can do both. With the base it can be done both, but it feels underpowered when driving at normal speeds, at least here in the mountains (just my opinion, and the reason I've taken the S).
Suzy991
Well put! Originally Posted by Suzy991
There are some things you ALL are missing here!Base carrera is a perfect car, but it is NOT the same as an S.... Base car has a 3.4 boxer while the S has a 3.8 boxer. Both engines have a different character. IMO the base Carrera with it's lower powerd 3.4 engine is the most purest 911 at this moment. When the 911 was introduced back in 1963 it was also "underpowered" compared to other sportscars, but made up by the great chassis, allthough the engine was in the wrong place.
The 3.4 boxer, you have to keep high in revs to get the most out of it and when driving it hard, it feels great. The S has some more torque and is an easier engine for lets call it "GT cruisin". With the S you can do both. With the base it can be done both, but it feels underpowered when driving at normal speeds, at least here in the mountains (just my opinion, and the reason I've taken the S).
Suzy991
After two base 991 cars I had to admit that the S is a better daily driver, feels much powerful driven in a relaxed manner.
Driven fast, they both feel the same to me, but I dont drive fast unless I am on the track. Not a good example for my teenage boy
I cant believe all this nonsense about red calipers. Who cares other than the fact they offer about 5 additional k HP 
!!!
I also cant believe someone said Boxsters are cheap. Most of the builds I see are about USD75k. My sympathies for those who live in Socialist regimes w/ absurd taxes.
!!!I also cant believe someone said Boxsters are cheap. Most of the builds I see are about USD75k. My sympathies for those who live in Socialist regimes w/ absurd taxes.
Quote:
2) I am "into" the Gt3 and the Turbo . In fact most guys who buy a gt3 or a Turbo once had some type of entry level 911 .
The Gt3 and Turbo offer greatness . They are the best in each class .
The 991S is the best at street/track versatlity. It's the base car that cant win at anything within this model line and at 100K a pop I feel it should offer more .
3) The Cayman is not a drag race car . It's not as fast as a 911 but it is more balanced , can be parked anywhere , and costs less . It is also the best mid engine Porsche of current times . Just as with the 911 I feel that only one Cayman (the S) ought to be offered .
4) A convertible in itself is a detriment to performance . That's even more of a reason to buy a Boxster over a 911 cab because it is a slower and more balanced roadster for 1/2 the price . That's why it sells so much .
I happen to agree enough to have bought one . Again I feel the "S" ought to be the only offering .
Agreed! Completely.Originally Posted by yrralis1
1) The 991 S is NOT the identical car to the base .There are significant improvement upgrades to the S and that is why i feel it ought to be the ONLY entry level 911 instead of having this two tier marketing offering. 2) I am "into" the Gt3 and the Turbo . In fact most guys who buy a gt3 or a Turbo once had some type of entry level 911 .
The Gt3 and Turbo offer greatness . They are the best in each class .
The 991S is the best at street/track versatlity. It's the base car that cant win at anything within this model line and at 100K a pop I feel it should offer more .
3) The Cayman is not a drag race car . It's not as fast as a 911 but it is more balanced , can be parked anywhere , and costs less . It is also the best mid engine Porsche of current times . Just as with the 911 I feel that only one Cayman (the S) ought to be offered .
4) A convertible in itself is a detriment to performance . That's even more of a reason to buy a Boxster over a 911 cab because it is a slower and more balanced roadster for 1/2 the price . That's why it sells so much .
I happen to agree enough to have bought one . Again I feel the "S" ought to be the only offering .
Quote:
The little subtle differences amount to large difference, by comparison, in all types of driving. Originally Posted by GS997S
What difference does it make? What if one of them is 5 seconds faster or slower than the other one over a 14 mile course. Do you really think you will feel that difference in daily driving?
Quote:
That whole thing about laptimes at the Nurnburgring is nothing more than a hype. I bet that there is no one on this forum that can match those times. It is just to say to other people "My car does the Ring faster than yours!"... adolescent behaviour IMO.
A car that does the Ring in 14 minutes can give you the same amount of fun than a car that does it in 7 minutes. It's not all about laptimes....
Suzy991
Those who compare laptimes and bench race have other issues. The S is superior in every way. If you are satisfied with the inferior vehicle, I present to you - a Toyota Prius. Because who cares about a few seconds on the Nurburgring? You're not going to notice this on the daily drive. It's not all about laptimes. A car that does the Ring in 14 minutes can give you the same amount of fun than a car that does it in 7 minutes.Originally Posted by Suzy991
EXACTLY!!! +911That whole thing about laptimes at the Nurnburgring is nothing more than a hype. I bet that there is no one on this forum that can match those times. It is just to say to other people "My car does the Ring faster than yours!"... adolescent behaviour IMO.
A car that does the Ring in 14 minutes can give you the same amount of fun than a car that does it in 7 minutes. It's not all about laptimes....
Suzy991
Quote:
Aaaaaarhh! That thing is my worst nightmare! Please don't bring that up here! I always thought this forum was about cars... Originally Posted by jaspergtr
If you are satisfied with the inferior vehicle, I present to you - a Toyota Prius.
What I was trying to say was that a car that isn't as fast as a La Ferrari of whatever supercar, can give you the same amount of fun on a normal inspiring road. Take for example the Abarth 695. I drove one recently and allthough not being very fast, it put an instant smile on my face. It really surprised me in every possible way. It is the whole experience a car can give you. That can be anything from the thrill of pure speed to an inspired exhaust note and nice gasresponse or handling.
A base Carrera can give you the same good feeling as a Carrera S, depending on the circumstances and the expectations you have. That hasn't anything to do with fast laptimes around a track IMO.
And don't get me wrong... I love racing, but you have to put it all in a certain perspective, which can be different for every other person.
A Prius isn't a vehicle made for inspired driving.... In fact a Prius isn't made to do anything right IMO, but that is probably because I immensely hate those vehicles.
I even dream sometimes of owning an Aston Martin with rocket launchers and all the Bond-gadgets, just to shoot every Prius out of my way 
Suzy991
Ahhh, more Prius bashing. I own one. It's our second. The first saved my then relatively inexperienced daughter's life in an intersectional accident. That 2004 had 90k plus miles and delivered flawless performance until its untimely death - it was destroyed and my little girl just suffered a small air bag brush burn as well as seat belt welts. It was replaced with a 2007 that has nearly 150k and required only oil changes and a spark plug change.
Have not needed to replace brake pads or rotors
These cars are incredible transportation machines. Absolutely reliable and economical.
So, you can moan and groan all you want about my little Toyota but I like it
Have not needed to replace brake pads or rotors
These cars are incredible transportation machines. Absolutely reliable and economical.
So, you can moan and groan all you want about my little Toyota but I like it
Quote:
Have not needed to replace brake pads or rotors
These cars are incredible transportation machines. Absolutely reliable and economical.
So, you can moan and groan all you want about my little Toyota but I like it
Originally Posted by rnl
Ahhh, more Prius bashing. I own one. It's our second. The first saved my then relatively inexperienced daughter's life in an intersectional accident. That 2004 had 90k plus miles and delivered flawless performance until its untimely death - it was destroyed and my little girl just suffered a small air bag brush burn as well as seat belt welts. It was replaced with a 2007 that has nearly 150k and required only oil changes and a spark plug change. Have not needed to replace brake pads or rotors
These cars are incredible transportation machines. Absolutely reliable and economical.
So, you can moan and groan all you want about my little Toyota but I like it
First i'm very happy for you for your daughters safety. While we are nuts about cars our families are the most important thing in our lives. I'm glad she made it through the accident.
However I just cant abide the prius. many of their drivers are so dang pretentious. I cringe when i'm behind one at a stoplight or an onramp.
They are so afraid of kicking on the gas engine they take forever to accelerate to speed. Pressing the throttle as lightly as possible to prevent the dreaded engine from starting.
We often joke in my family (wife drives a 382HP Tundra Crewmax) that they have calendars in place of speedometers.
I'm sure they are very reliable, its just the drivers trying to hypermile at my expense is annoying.
Quote:
What I was trying to say was that a car that isn't as fast as a La Ferrari of whatever supercar, can give you the same amount of fun on a normal inspiring road. Take for example the Abarth 695. I drove one recently and allthough not being very fast, it put an instant smile on my face. It really surprised me in every possible way. It is the whole experience a car can give you. That can be anything from the thrill of pure speed to an inspired exhaust note and nice gasresponse or handling.
A base Carrera can give you the same good feeling as a Carrera S, depending on the circumstances and the expectations you have. That hasn't anything to do with fast laptimes around a track IMO.
And don't get me wrong... I love racing, but you have to put it all in a certain perspective, which can be different for every other person.
A Prius isn't a vehicle made for inspired driving.... In fact a Prius isn't made to do anything right IMO, but that is probably because I immensely hate those vehicles. I even dream sometimes of owning an Aston Martin with rocket launchers and all the Bond-gadgets, just to shoot every Prius out of my way
Suzy991
Originally Posted by Suzy991
Aaaaaarhh! That thing is my worst nightmare! Please don't bring that up here! I always thought this forum was about cars... What I was trying to say was that a car that isn't as fast as a La Ferrari of whatever supercar, can give you the same amount of fun on a normal inspiring road. Take for example the Abarth 695. I drove one recently and allthough not being very fast, it put an instant smile on my face. It really surprised me in every possible way. It is the whole experience a car can give you. That can be anything from the thrill of pure speed to an inspired exhaust note and nice gasresponse or handling.
A base Carrera can give you the same good feeling as a Carrera S, depending on the circumstances and the expectations you have. That hasn't anything to do with fast laptimes around a track IMO.
And don't get me wrong... I love racing, but you have to put it all in a certain perspective, which can be different for every other person.
A Prius isn't a vehicle made for inspired driving.... In fact a Prius isn't made to do anything right IMO, but that is probably because I immensely hate those vehicles.
I even dream sometimes of owning an Aston Martin with rocket launchers and all the Bond-gadgets, just to shoot every Prius out of my way Suzy991
I knew I could push your 'Prius' Button.On the same day, I drove a 360CS, NSX, and a Miata. And I had fun in every one of them on track. Admittedly, I haven't recovered from the rush of the CS, but the Miata was a TON of fun. It's like a legal go-kart. BUT - I'd rather have the NSX every other day of my life over the other two. So - the 'S' is the car I'd rather have, because of all the little things that add up to a better car.
Quote:
Have not needed to replace brake pads or rotors
These cars are incredible transportation machines. Absolutely reliable and economical.
So, you can moan and groan all you want about my little Toyota but I like it
It was not my intention to insult anyone personally... I respect your opinion and I'm glad you like the car and have good experiences with it, but I just hate them. Sorry for that...Originally Posted by rnl
Ahhh, more Prius bashing. I own one. It's our second. The first saved my then relatively inexperienced daughter's life in an intersectional accident. That 2004 had 90k plus miles and delivered flawless performance until its untimely death - it was destroyed and my little girl just suffered a small air bag brush burn as well as seat belt welts. It was replaced with a 2007 that has nearly 150k and required only oil changes and a spark plug change.Have not needed to replace brake pads or rotors
These cars are incredible transportation machines. Absolutely reliable and economical.
So, you can moan and groan all you want about my little Toyota but I like it
Suzy991
Quote:
I knew I could push your 'Prius' Button.
On the same day, I drove a 360CS, NSX, and a Miata. And I had fun in every one of them on track. Admittedly, I haven't recovered from the rush of the CS, but the Miata was a TON of fun. It's like a legal go-kart. BUT - I'd rather have the NSX every other day of my life over the other two. So - the 'S' is the car I'd rather have, because of all the little things that add up to a better car.
So glad you didn't push any other button Originally Posted by jaspergtr
I knew I could push your 'Prius' Button.On the same day, I drove a 360CS, NSX, and a Miata. And I had fun in every one of them on track. Admittedly, I haven't recovered from the rush of the CS, but the Miata was a TON of fun. It's like a legal go-kart. BUT - I'd rather have the NSX every other day of my life over the other two. So - the 'S' is the car I'd rather have, because of all the little things that add up to a better car.
LOLI'm with you on that. I prefer the S too for the same matter.
Suzy991
Quote:
Have not needed to replace brake pads or rotors
These cars are incredible transportation machines. Absolutely reliable and economical.
So, you can moan and groan all you want about my little Toyota but I like it
I have no intention of being as apologetic about Prius bashing. Originally Posted by rnl
Ahhh, more Prius bashing. I own one. It's our second. The first saved my then relatively inexperienced daughter's life in an intersectional accident. That 2004 had 90k plus miles and delivered flawless performance until its untimely death - it was destroyed and my little girl just suffered a small air bag brush burn as well as seat belt welts. It was replaced with a 2007 that has nearly 150k and required only oil changes and a spark plug change. Have not needed to replace brake pads or rotors
These cars are incredible transportation machines. Absolutely reliable and economical.
So, you can moan and groan all you want about my little Toyota but I like it
Porsches are cars. Damn good ones, at that. A Prius is just an alternate form of transportation, that is only combined into the same class of machine as a Porsche by mere technicality of having 4 tires and a steering mechanism of some kind. Somehow, the Tesla S is immune to this scrutiny. Of course, I am the judge and jury on this subject. So your opinion may vary.
You wanna discuss hybrids? I present to you - the La Ferrari and 918. Other than that, I'll wait for the R36 (speculation includes a hybrid 600HP monster).