Maxflo mufflers vs headers, which gives better sound
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my advice would be not order the PSE and get an aftermarket exhaust. Thats what i did, I when with FVD exhaust, it deleted the secondary mufflers and zero DRONE, with around 20% louder then PSE. not to mention save like 40 pounds to the rear and HP gains. I posted vid before on here, haven't had the time to film a drive by yet. Fitment is perfectand no CEL error 
I was going to go with that, but ended up picking up a Cargraphics X pipe replacement, so will use that.
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http://www.fvd.de/us/en/Porsche-0/991-203-51/coupe/2013/item/item_details/VID_98393301-VCD_17043171-gid_30-sort_4-display_50-item_BES99115000SKR/EXHAUST_-_Tuning_-_Muffler_BES99115000SKR_Center_Muffler_Bypass_911_ 2012_991_`Brombacher`_with_Valves.html
Works with the PSE button, and gives you great sound when the valves are open. The stock side mufflers stay intact. I have a couple of videos by I haven't created a youtube account yet... I'll do that hopefully this week.
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I suspect that you do not want the side muffler bypass AND an aftermarket X-pipe, unless all you care about is saving weight (in which case, the Akrapovic will likely be the lightest)
Remember that with the x-pipe, when the valves are open, almost all the exhaust goes through the bypass, which means the side mufflers are hardly used at all. This means that if you bypass the side mufflers, you'll get louder sound ONLY when the valves are closed, and it will sound the same open. You might as well just skip the valves in that case.
What you likely want is either the FVD or Cargraphics center muffler (both are similar designs, I like the Cargraphic better, since it looks like a better flow path when it is closed) and the stock side mufflers.
It is actually good that you got PSE, because the standard Carrera S exhaust's valve control is a little weird. PSE is on or off (except when you have it open, it closes a bit between 1000-3000 rpm to keep drone down under light throttle.) The Standard carrera S exhaust opens at idle (huh!?) and then closes, then opens at 3400 rpm. In most driving, it sounds identical open or closed.
I suspect this means that I'll end up paying $400 for the remote valve control override from Cargraphics or FVD later... or paying the dealership to program in the PSE option (with the button in the console) for $1000 or so. :/
Remember that with the x-pipe, when the valves are open, almost all the exhaust goes through the bypass, which means the side mufflers are hardly used at all. This means that if you bypass the side mufflers, you'll get louder sound ONLY when the valves are closed, and it will sound the same open. You might as well just skip the valves in that case.
What you likely want is either the FVD or Cargraphics center muffler (both are similar designs, I like the Cargraphic better, since it looks like a better flow path when it is closed) and the stock side mufflers.
It is actually good that you got PSE, because the standard Carrera S exhaust's valve control is a little weird. PSE is on or off (except when you have it open, it closes a bit between 1000-3000 rpm to keep drone down under light throttle.) The Standard carrera S exhaust opens at idle (huh!?) and then closes, then opens at 3400 rpm. In most driving, it sounds identical open or closed.
I suspect this means that I'll end up paying $400 for the remote valve control override from Cargraphics or FVD later... or paying the dealership to program in the PSE option (with the button in the console) for $1000 or so. :/
ok, thanks, now Im much more clear, my question now is if should I go for car graphics or fvd center muffler (vid clips would help a lot), leaving oem side mufflers and in case I might need louder sound, I will get aftermarket headers from cargraphics, fvd or fabspeed, not sure if all brands increases the sound at the same level science their cats are all 200 cel. Any ideas here?
Last edited by dr bit; Jul 17, 2013 at 12:00 AM.
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ok, thanks, now Im much more clear, my question now is if should I go for car graphics or fvd center muffler (vid clips would help a lot), leaving oem side mufflers and in case I might need louder sound, I will get aftermarket headers from cargraphics, fvd or fabspeed, not sure if all brands increases the sound at the same level science their cats are all 200 cel. Any ideas here?
In terms of quality and customer service FVD Brombacher is hard to beat IMHO.
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I've been doing some research trying to find the difference between cargraphic and Fvd, I read the first it's sound is High Pitch when second is described as it growls. Do you agree with this description? If so, what kind of sound do you think would go better with a 991 CS2 mahogany metallic interior beige Luxor with red stitching? Wanted to configured it classic but sporty with look.
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Ok Dr Bit- I did the bypass pipes install. 43 miles in, here is my take:
Remember I have PSE so I kept the center muffler and stock headers.
At start up with PSE on or off, the sound is very similar (pse on or off), and deeper than that of PSE with the side mufflers. It definitely has a lower tone, deeper rumble at cold fire up which I like.
The rest of my thoughts are with PSE on:
There is about 30% more exhaust noise at lower rpms (which I like) towards the 6k rpm range and then the sound is about the same with the side mufflers above the 6k range with maybe 15% more loudness. So you get a lot more sound down low depending on how you run the throttle and what rpm ranges.
Here is the best part: the burbles and pops are far more prevalent at lower ranges in coast downs from higher rpms (6k down to 3k). You can just hear them that much better in cabin.
The car is just louder. Now I like to think I have a great threshold for that subjective word called drone. There is definitely more sound from the exhaust at lower rpms during cruising speeds where you are on the throttle from 2500 to 3k rpms. This applies to both highway speeds and city runs. I definitely noticed this and Im used to more exhaust noise feedback with the cars I currently and previously had. I like it. But I do know some may not.
I like the mod- I can turn up the music if I want to drown out the exhaust notes down low (but I dont want to). I love blasting the car up to 8k rpms and the just listening to the car grumble down to a stop. Its a much deeper rumble while maintaining the stock PSE and headers.
The mod took all of maybe 45 minutes: car up on lift, remove rear wheels, remove stock mufflers, remove tail pipes, install bypass pipes, install factory clamps, reinstall pipes... enjoy. No bumper removal needed here.
Remember I have PSE so I kept the center muffler and stock headers.
At start up with PSE on or off, the sound is very similar (pse on or off), and deeper than that of PSE with the side mufflers. It definitely has a lower tone, deeper rumble at cold fire up which I like.
The rest of my thoughts are with PSE on:
There is about 30% more exhaust noise at lower rpms (which I like) towards the 6k rpm range and then the sound is about the same with the side mufflers above the 6k range with maybe 15% more loudness. So you get a lot more sound down low depending on how you run the throttle and what rpm ranges.
Here is the best part: the burbles and pops are far more prevalent at lower ranges in coast downs from higher rpms (6k down to 3k). You can just hear them that much better in cabin.
The car is just louder. Now I like to think I have a great threshold for that subjective word called drone. There is definitely more sound from the exhaust at lower rpms during cruising speeds where you are on the throttle from 2500 to 3k rpms. This applies to both highway speeds and city runs. I definitely noticed this and Im used to more exhaust noise feedback with the cars I currently and previously had. I like it. But I do know some may not.
I like the mod- I can turn up the music if I want to drown out the exhaust notes down low (but I dont want to). I love blasting the car up to 8k rpms and the just listening to the car grumble down to a stop. Its a much deeper rumble while maintaining the stock PSE and headers.
The mod took all of maybe 45 minutes: car up on lift, remove rear wheels, remove stock mufflers, remove tail pipes, install bypass pipes, install factory clamps, reinstall pipes... enjoy. No bumper removal needed here.
Last edited by Vic55; Jul 17, 2013 at 10:48 AM.
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I've been doing some research trying to find the difference between cargraphic and Fvd, I read the first it's sound is High Pitch when second is described as it growls. Do you agree with this description? If so, what kind of sound do you think would go better with a 991 CS2 mahogany metallic interior beige Luxor with red stitching? Wanted to configured it classic but sporty with look.
I have not heard the cargraphic pipe (exhaust) in person, so I can't comment to that.
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Ok Dr Bit- I did the bypass pipes install. 43 miles in, here is my take:
Remember I have PSE so I kept the center muffler and stock headers.
At start up with PSE on or off, the sound is very similar (pse on or off), and deeper than that of PSE with the side mufflers. It definitely has a lower tone, deeper rumble at cold fire up which I like.
The rest of my thoughts are with PSE on:
There is about 30% more exhaust noise at lower rpms (which I like) towards the 6k rpm range and then the sound is about the same with the side mufflers above the 6k range with maybe 15% more loudness. So you get a lot more sound down low depending on how you run the throttle and what rpm ranges.
Here is the best part: the burbles and pops are far more prevalent at lower ranges in coast downs from higher rpms (6k down to 3k). You can just hear them that much better in cabin.
The car is just louder. Now I like to think I have a great threshold for that subjective word called drone. There is definitely more sound from the exhaust at lower rpms during cruising speeds where you are on the throttle from 2500 to 3k rpms. This applies to both highway speeds and city runs. I definitely noticed this and Im used to more exhaust noise feedback with the cars I currently and previously had. I like it. But I do know some may not.
I like the mod- I can turn up the music if I want to drown out the exhaust notes down low (but I dont want to). I love blasting the car up to 8k rpms and the just listening to the car grumble down to a stop. Its a much deeper rumble while maintaining the stock PSE and headers.
The mod took all of maybe 45 minutes: car up on lift, remove rear wheels, remove stock mufflers, remove tail pipes, install bypass pipes, install factory clamps, reinstall pipes... enjoy. No bumper removal needed here.
Remember I have PSE so I kept the center muffler and stock headers.
At start up with PSE on or off, the sound is very similar (pse on or off), and deeper than that of PSE with the side mufflers. It definitely has a lower tone, deeper rumble at cold fire up which I like.
The rest of my thoughts are with PSE on:
There is about 30% more exhaust noise at lower rpms (which I like) towards the 6k rpm range and then the sound is about the same with the side mufflers above the 6k range with maybe 15% more loudness. So you get a lot more sound down low depending on how you run the throttle and what rpm ranges.
Here is the best part: the burbles and pops are far more prevalent at lower ranges in coast downs from higher rpms (6k down to 3k). You can just hear them that much better in cabin.
The car is just louder. Now I like to think I have a great threshold for that subjective word called drone. There is definitely more sound from the exhaust at lower rpms during cruising speeds where you are on the throttle from 2500 to 3k rpms. This applies to both highway speeds and city runs. I definitely noticed this and Im used to more exhaust noise feedback with the cars I currently and previously had. I like it. But I do know some may not.
I like the mod- I can turn up the music if I want to drown out the exhaust notes down low (but I dont want to). I love blasting the car up to 8k rpms and the just listening to the car grumble down to a stop. Its a much deeper rumble while maintaining the stock PSE and headers.
The mod took all of maybe 45 minutes: car up on lift, remove rear wheels, remove stock mufflers, remove tail pipes, install bypass pipes, install factory clamps, reinstall pipes... enjoy. No bumper removal needed here.
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You get mostly a deep growl and deep gurgles with the FVD x-pipe, at high rpm's you get a higher pitched growl, but I wouldn't describe it as a scream. It does sound glorious and it is loud. I think the sound goes with any color.
I have not heard the cargraphic pipe (exhaust) in person, so I can't comment to that.
I have not heard the cargraphic pipe (exhaust) in person, so I can't comment to that.
how loud is your car now when PSE is off?
Last edited by dr bit; Jul 17, 2013 at 10:56 PM.
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Yup, I'll be ditching the side stock mufflers as well and try the sharkwerks exhaust. It basically will give me two different loud exhaust notes.
One of the reasons to delete the side cans is because they generate a lot of heat close to the rear tires on the track, the other reason is simply me being curious...
it will be 'no-muffler' loud so I might just run it for a couple of days before swapping it out. I'm lucky that the 2 porsche techs are close friends of mine, so it isn't a big deal.
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Turning off the PSE turns the car into a hybrid... super quiet, a difference like day and night.
Yup, I'll be ditching the side stock mufflers as well and try the sharkwerks exhaust. It basically will give me two different loud exhaust notes.
One of the reasons to delete the side cans is because they generate a lot of heat close to the rear tires on the track, the other reason is simply me being curious... it will be 'no-muffler' loud so I might just run it for a couple of days before swapping it out. I'm lucky that the 2 porsche techs are close friends of mine, so it isn't a big deal.
Yup, I'll be ditching the side stock mufflers as well and try the sharkwerks exhaust. It basically will give me two different loud exhaust notes.
One of the reasons to delete the side cans is because they generate a lot of heat close to the rear tires on the track, the other reason is simply me being curious...
it will be 'no-muffler' loud so I might just run it for a couple of days before swapping it out. I'm lucky that the 2 porsche techs are close friends of mine, so it isn't a big deal.Your valves work perfectly with console button right? Just double checking...
Please let me know how it went w sharkwerks bypass, specially when PSE off, I don't mind if it gets louder when on, as far it doesn't give drone, but I heard it will turn louder when PSE off, that I don't want, need the car to be discreet at some places lol, I'm interested for saving weight as well .
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Those are very good news for me, the idea of getting another exhaust different then PSE it is because u want it louder, but want to have the option of being quite as we'll, other wise I wouldn't have gotten PSE.
Your valves work perfectly with console button right? Just double checking...
Please let me know how it went w sharkwerks bypass, specially when PSE off, I don't mind if it gets louder when on, as far it doesn't give drone, but I heard it will turn louder when PSE off, that I don't want, need the car to be discreet at some places lol, I'm interested for saving weight as well .
Your valves work perfectly with console button right? Just double checking...
Please let me know how it went w sharkwerks bypass, specially when PSE off, I don't mind if it gets louder when on, as far it doesn't give drone, but I heard it will turn louder when PSE off, that I don't want, need the car to be discreet at some places lol, I'm interested for saving weight as well .
Your car won't be louder if you leave the PSE button off, it will stay totally stock, and quite.
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I read that the gases goes through the side mufflers when PSE is off, that's why I'm asking this, I think you read it too, but not sure about this, but if you are doing the experiment, I will love to hear about it.
My car will be in Mexico City, so I'd have to buy and import the pieces, there is no way I can try them and if I don't like I will take it back, freight would be double cost as well.
My car will be in Mexico City, so I'd have to buy and import the pieces, there is no way I can try them and if I don't like I will take it back, freight would be double cost as well.
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