Kids and learning to drive
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Exactly. The better schools have courses and cars designed for the instructional purposes and professionals as instructors. The two huge advantages are:
1) the facilities (skid pads, steering and braking controls for the instructor, safe low and high speed track settings (no public roads) and
2) teacher-student relationships (unlike parent-kid relationships, it is clear to all who knows what and who is cool).
At the school I cited about half of what is taught is identical to what is taught in the race school- by the same pros.
1) the facilities (skid pads, steering and braking controls for the instructor, safe low and high speed track settings (no public roads) and
2) teacher-student relationships (unlike parent-kid relationships, it is clear to all who knows what and who is cool).
At the school I cited about half of what is taught is identical to what is taught in the race school- by the same pros.
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And to those of you who suggested a performance driving course, excellent idea - for her and for me. I think it is something we will do together, as soon as she gets her license. There are courses in defensive driving, driving in weather - with slip pads, etc. And my local PCA (NNJR) does great courses in car control. I was even thinking of having her come to an autocross - it is better to see what you and a car can do - right and wrong, when the only risk is to a cone! Thanks for the great suggestions!
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I spent a lot of time making sure I didn't conflate our family values with the best automotive choice for my daughter. Here was my thinking:
Family values: Family, school, extracurricular activities, work, social life.
A typical week for my daughter: 35 hours in school, 20 hours homework, 20 hours extracurricular (which could well lead to college scholarships), 0-4 hours babysitting work, MAYBE 2-4 hours of out-of-school social life. The first three numbers are if anything lower than actuals, so to my way of thinking she's working 75 hours a week. That's more than I do and allows her less time for sleep than I get. We are not "tiger parents." She has chosen to take on this load, and we support her choice. She is loving and respectful. She's ranked in the top 5 of a 500 person high school class. Could you ask your daughter/son to do more? I won't. And I'm not trying to toot her or my horn, just pointing out that without some context it is important to be careful drawing conclusions about "spoiling" children.
In terms of car choice, several people in the thread above obviously think a used 328 like I got her seems a reasonable choice. I got it for mid-$20k price with 2 years of warranty. Yes, I could have gotten something less flashy, but for me the best combinations of safety, ease of driving, all-weather capability, and nice were the 328 and A4. I looked for both and found the CPO 328. Done.
P.S. +1 for a driving school. Here in Denver my first two have gone through MasterDrive and I recommend it.
Family values: Family, school, extracurricular activities, work, social life.
A typical week for my daughter: 35 hours in school, 20 hours homework, 20 hours extracurricular (which could well lead to college scholarships), 0-4 hours babysitting work, MAYBE 2-4 hours of out-of-school social life. The first three numbers are if anything lower than actuals, so to my way of thinking she's working 75 hours a week. That's more than I do and allows her less time for sleep than I get. We are not "tiger parents." She has chosen to take on this load, and we support her choice. She is loving and respectful. She's ranked in the top 5 of a 500 person high school class. Could you ask your daughter/son to do more? I won't. And I'm not trying to toot her or my horn, just pointing out that without some context it is important to be careful drawing conclusions about "spoiling" children.
In terms of car choice, several people in the thread above obviously think a used 328 like I got her seems a reasonable choice. I got it for mid-$20k price with 2 years of warranty. Yes, I could have gotten something less flashy, but for me the best combinations of safety, ease of driving, all-weather capability, and nice were the 328 and A4. I looked for both and found the CPO 328. Done.
P.S. +1 for a driving school. Here in Denver my first two have gone through MasterDrive and I recommend it.
Last edited by jnscolo; Sep 24, 2013 at 07:50 AM. Reason: Add PS
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I spent a lot of time making sure I didn't conflate our family values with the best automotive choice for my daughter. Here was my thinking:
Family values: Family, school, extracurricular activities, work, social life.
A typical week for my daughter: 35 hours in school, 20 hours homework, 20 hours extracurricular (which could well lead to college scholarships), 0-4 hours babysitting work, MAYBE 2-4 hours of out-of-school social life. The first three numbers are if anything lower than actuals, so to my way of thinking she's working 75 hours a week. That's more than I do and allows her less time for sleep than I get. We are not "tiger parents." She has chosen to take on this load, and we support her choice. She is loving and respectful. She's ranked in the top 5 of a 500 person high school class. Could you ask your daughter/son to do more? I won't. And I'm not trying to toot her or my horn, just pointing out that without some context it is important to be careful drawing conclusions about "spoiling" children.
In terms of car choice, several people in the thread above obviously think a used 328 like I got her seems a reasonable choice. I got it for mid-$20k price with 2 years of warranty. Yes, I could have gotten something less flashy, but for me the best combinations of safety, ease of driving, all-weather capability, and nice were the 328 and A4. I looked for both and found the CPO 328. Done.
P.S. +1 for a driving school. Here in Denver my first two have gone through MasterDrive and I recommend it.
Family values: Family, school, extracurricular activities, work, social life.
A typical week for my daughter: 35 hours in school, 20 hours homework, 20 hours extracurricular (which could well lead to college scholarships), 0-4 hours babysitting work, MAYBE 2-4 hours of out-of-school social life. The first three numbers are if anything lower than actuals, so to my way of thinking she's working 75 hours a week. That's more than I do and allows her less time for sleep than I get. We are not "tiger parents." She has chosen to take on this load, and we support her choice. She is loving and respectful. She's ranked in the top 5 of a 500 person high school class. Could you ask your daughter/son to do more? I won't. And I'm not trying to toot her or my horn, just pointing out that without some context it is important to be careful drawing conclusions about "spoiling" children.
In terms of car choice, several people in the thread above obviously think a used 328 like I got her seems a reasonable choice. I got it for mid-$20k price with 2 years of warranty. Yes, I could have gotten something less flashy, but for me the best combinations of safety, ease of driving, all-weather capability, and nice were the 328 and A4. I looked for both and found the CPO 328. Done.
P.S. +1 for a driving school. Here in Denver my first two have gone through MasterDrive and I recommend it.
It sounds like you have a great kid. I love mine as well. Keep them safe! And for you, given all of the rain, consider a blow-up life raft in the emergency equipment in the trunk! I hope everyone out there is improving - we who were hit by two hurricanes in two year and never expected either have been thinking about Colo. a lot! Be well
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I was having difficulty finding a late model used car with the features I wanted. I have also had some bad experiences with used cars in the past, but I would have seriously considered one if a good one had presented itself. I think you made a great choice. I made about the same choice - but took a bigger economic hit. It will primarily be my car. In two years, 2013's like the one I just bought will come off lease and I expect that her first true car will be one of those.
It sounds like you have a great kid. I love mine as well. Keep them safe! And for you, given all of the rain, consider a blow-up life raft in the emergency equipment in the trunk! I hope everyone out there is improving - we who were hit by two hurricanes in two year and never expected either have been thinking about Colo. a lot! Be well
It sounds like you have a great kid. I love mine as well. Keep them safe! And for you, given all of the rain, consider a blow-up life raft in the emergency equipment in the trunk! I hope everyone out there is improving - we who were hit by two hurricanes in two year and never expected either have been thinking about Colo. a lot! Be well
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@AG & Chuck - I've actually set my car as their grail, to attend driving events. I've made deals with most of my children to allow them to drive my car, if they complete an event with me.
As my older daughters just expected daddy to hand over his keys, the oldest son finally realized that I was serious. I try to take advantage of my track experience, and hold private "track lessons" on closed areas (sometimes auto-x). Not for competitive purposes, but just trying to get that education in any way we can. Sometimes even racing on racing simulators (Forza on XBOX, for example). I mean - if they can keep up with me on that, they understand a little bit of physics and car control.
(Before people chime in and say it is controlled and just a video game - I agree, just like addition and subtraction aren't needed to work a McD's register, it doesn't hurt)
As my older daughters just expected daddy to hand over his keys, the oldest son finally realized that I was serious. I try to take advantage of my track experience, and hold private "track lessons" on closed areas (sometimes auto-x). Not for competitive purposes, but just trying to get that education in any way we can. Sometimes even racing on racing simulators (Forza on XBOX, for example). I mean - if they can keep up with me on that, they understand a little bit of physics and car control.
(Before people chime in and say it is controlled and just a video game - I agree, just like addition and subtraction aren't needed to work a McD's register, it doesn't hurt)
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My daughter definitely has it easier than many - much more so than I did. We go on vacation most years and many involve a plane ride. She has nice clothes, and an iPhone - not the new one. But she is neither lucky enough to live with a wealthy family (we do well, but have no mansion or yacht) nor oblivious to the value of money. She worked this summer at 15 and she babysits.
But I don't agree that it never hurts to be a bit less healthy, wealthy or wise. JMO. More to the point, my decision process had very little to do with her likes or dislikes and everything to do with balancing her ability drive a car and its safety. Her mother wanted her in a Suburban or an Abraham's A1 tank. But they are very hard to learn to drive. I wanted something that is reliable, has current safety features (without too much nanny technology a the Volvo S60 will stop the car for you in stop and go traffic) and is a reasonable size. To me, that meant a new car, a car with good crash performance and mass, a car with an on-star-like feature, current national roadside assistance, good camera technology, blind spot systems, a good NAV system and yet a reasonable size for learning to parallel park. And since we will share this car, I need to like it also.
It is hard for me, who went to night school and worked long hours for years to give my family what it has and to secure its future, to think about any kid, even my own, in a fancy, expensive new car. It is even harder for me to have the ability to keep my kid safe and not do so standing on that principal. Again, that is my opinion only.
But I don't agree that it never hurts to be a bit less healthy, wealthy or wise. JMO. More to the point, my decision process had very little to do with her likes or dislikes and everything to do with balancing her ability drive a car and its safety. Her mother wanted her in a Suburban or an Abraham's A1 tank. But they are very hard to learn to drive. I wanted something that is reliable, has current safety features (without too much nanny technology a the Volvo S60 will stop the car for you in stop and go traffic) and is a reasonable size. To me, that meant a new car, a car with good crash performance and mass, a car with an on-star-like feature, current national roadside assistance, good camera technology, blind spot systems, a good NAV system and yet a reasonable size for learning to parallel park. And since we will share this car, I need to like it also.
It is hard for me, who went to night school and worked long hours for years to give my family what it has and to secure its future, to think about any kid, even my own, in a fancy, expensive new car. It is even harder for me to have the ability to keep my kid safe and not do so standing on that principal. Again, that is my opinion only.
We don't have children of our own but are lucky to have nephews that we love dearly (5 and 8 yr olds) who are 5 minutes away and spend much of the week with us. They are already car fanatics and in a few years time, the universe willing, I can see myself buying them their first cars. Their parents would want them to have their spin off Subaru's etc. but know and respect my desire to buy them something safe and most likely new. I feel that as long as the value of money has been instilled in them, I see no reason to put them through either unnecessary hardship or not enjoy all that we are able to offer them and of course bearing in mind the new drivers ability.
Last edited by Haku; Sep 24, 2013 at 09:55 AM.
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I would say no for now, I remember when I was driving at 16. I didn't speed or race anyone that much. I was really responsible for my age but I am glad my father brought me a really old corolla. When you are young, you take chances, I remember backing up and just kept going thinking I will not hit the trash can. Boom, hit it and dent it. I went in at an angle and scratch the side of the car in the garage. I put a lot of dents and scratches on my old corolla. A year later, my father brought me a Eagle Talon turbo, $22K brand new. A lot of money at the time and for a 17 year old, it was unheard of. Everyone of my friends were jealous. With this car. I didn't not have a single scratch and dent on it. I learned not to take chances with the Corolla.
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My son has been a car freak (like his father) since he started to talk. At age three or four he saw a matchbox lambo in a toy store window and when we went in to get it, he asked for "the Countach". Of course the sales person needed him to point it out because she did not have any idea which car he meant.
When he was 16 (1997) I got him a Volvo s70 T5 which he kept scratch less for 2 years. I took him to the Bondurant school when he was 18 and he never drove an automatic tranny until he got a Panamera GTS recently. At 18 I got him a 2000 BMW X Z3 M Coupe and then the last car I bought for him was a 2002 M3. He never abused his privileges. He was a straight A student in HS and then Suma *** Laude at Wharton (UPENN). He now buys his own Porsches, Ferraris etc. with his own money on his 7 figure income.
The rewards should be commensurate with the respect and responsibility that your kid shows. Some might say, when he was young, that I spoiled him. I don't think so...he earned it.
When he was 16 (1997) I got him a Volvo s70 T5 which he kept scratch less for 2 years. I took him to the Bondurant school when he was 18 and he never drove an automatic tranny until he got a Panamera GTS recently. At 18 I got him a 2000 BMW X Z3 M Coupe and then the last car I bought for him was a 2002 M3. He never abused his privileges. He was a straight A student in HS and then Suma *** Laude at Wharton (UPENN). He now buys his own Porsches, Ferraris etc. with his own money on his 7 figure income.
The rewards should be commensurate with the respect and responsibility that your kid shows. Some might say, when he was young, that I spoiled him. I don't think so...he earned it.
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I personally would have "killed" for a car like that at age 16, but if you can afford it, I'd say nice choice.
At that age, my number one priority would be safety for the kid, not the prestige of a German brand. Most kids like small, automatic transmission vehicles as their first cars and this seems to fit the bill. The 328xi is small, can get a kid out of a situation (handling)...it really does help after I almost flipped my little Dodge when I was a kid, the AWD ability of the vehicle, and the fact that it is a 4-door and you can borrow it at anytime. Reliability? eh who knows. Any reason why you didn't lease it?
Another good choice would have been the Acura ILX imho.
At that age, my number one priority would be safety for the kid, not the prestige of a German brand. Most kids like small, automatic transmission vehicles as their first cars and this seems to fit the bill. The 328xi is small, can get a kid out of a situation (handling)...it really does help after I almost flipped my little Dodge when I was a kid, the AWD ability of the vehicle, and the fact that it is a 4-door and you can borrow it at anytime. Reliability? eh who knows. Any reason why you didn't lease it?
Another good choice would have been the Acura ILX imho.
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My son has been a car freak (like his father) since he started to talk. At age three or four he saw a matchbox lambo in a toy store window and when we went in to get it, he asked for "the Countach". Of course the sales person needed him to point it out because she did not have any idea which car he meant.
When he was 16 (1997) I got him a Volvo s70 T5 which he kept scratch less for 2 years. I took him to the Bondurant school when he was 18 and he never drove an automatic tranny until he got a Panamera GTS recently. At 18 I got him a 2000 BMW X Z3 M Coupe and then the last car I bought for him was a 2002 M3. He never abused his privileges. He was a straight A student in HS and then Suma *** Laude at Wharton (UPENN). He now buys his own Porsches, Ferraris etc. with his own money on his 7 figure income.
The rewards should be commensurate with the respect and responsibility that your kid shows. Some might say, when he was young, that I spoiled him. I don't think so...he earned it.
When he was 16 (1997) I got him a Volvo s70 T5 which he kept scratch less for 2 years. I took him to the Bondurant school when he was 18 and he never drove an automatic tranny until he got a Panamera GTS recently. At 18 I got him a 2000 BMW X Z3 M Coupe and then the last car I bought for him was a 2002 M3. He never abused his privileges. He was a straight A student in HS and then Suma *** Laude at Wharton (UPENN). He now buys his own Porsches, Ferraris etc. with his own money on his 7 figure income.
The rewards should be commensurate with the respect and responsibility that your kid shows. Some might say, when he was young, that I spoiled him. I don't think so...he earned it.
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Thank you all. Great discussion. There is merit in all of your comments. And Haku, I wish I had such an uncle! BlackPepper, the Civic is a great car. I looked at it as well as the Ford Focus. Since I will be using this car the most, and I wanted a German car, I ultimately ruled them out. I also wanted all wheel drive and some features that they did not offer. Actually, Ford has a very good system called MyKey, I think, that allows you to give a teen a special key which changes certain settings: more notice when low on gas or speeding, etc., can't turn off traction control, and the like.
If she does ok in my car, and she is used to it, we will figure out where to go from there, either she takes mine and I get a new one, or she gets a used one. We will have to see. Many kids can't have cars as freshman in college so maybe we will wait until later.
Again, thanks to all and I should have asked before we purchased. Next time! And thanks to the moderators for not relegating this to some off topic portion of the site!
If she does ok in my car, and she is used to it, we will figure out where to go from there, either she takes mine and I get a new one, or she gets a used one. We will have to see. Many kids can't have cars as freshman in college so maybe we will wait until later.
Again, thanks to all and I should have asked before we purchased. Next time! And thanks to the moderators for not relegating this to some off topic portion of the site!
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I took a slightly different path
My son turned 16 yesterday. He got his restricted license. Michigan as far as I can tell is a little different. At 14 years and 8 months you can get a permit. You have to take 2 levels or drivers education to get a license at 16. I drove with him to school for a little over a year. He has driven a lot at this point. Because of school and sports my wife and I drive the kids all over creation. Given the opportunity for him to drive himself I was up for "buying an extra car for him to drive. " Those words are chosen very carefully. It is not his car, the privilege can be removed at any moment!
I chose to get a 5 star crash rated, cheap used car. The best midsize candidate I found was a 2011 Chevy Malibu, 49K miles. What it lacks in sexy it makes up for in slowness. 11 airbags in that bad boy. Today he drove himself to school for the first time, I had the feeling of freedom and fear simultaneously, unique combination.
Not commenting on others choices just sharing my own experience.
I chose to get a 5 star crash rated, cheap used car. The best midsize candidate I found was a 2011 Chevy Malibu, 49K miles. What it lacks in sexy it makes up for in slowness. 11 airbags in that bad boy. Today he drove himself to school for the first time, I had the feeling of freedom and fear simultaneously, unique combination.
Not commenting on others choices just sharing my own experience.
Last edited by Detroit Shooter; Sep 24, 2013 at 12:19 PM.