Low end torque - Please? - Page 2 - 6SpeedOnline - Porsche Forum and Luxury Car Resource

991
Sponsored by:

Low end torque - Please?

 
  #16  
Old 01-21-2014, 04:05 PM
empunker's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Age: 32
Posts: 1,116
Rep Power: 63
empunker is a glorious beacon of lightempunker is a glorious beacon of lightempunker is a glorious beacon of lightempunker is a glorious beacon of lightempunker is a glorious beacon of light
Originally Posted by AG991 View Post
Ok,
Almost 2 years and I still love the car. I read the thread on the Power Kit and it may not be a rip off because it is what it says, but it does not seem to be a good value. I don't need more horsepower - I can't use what I have now. But low end torque, that I could use - and would pay for. Is there anything that will not kill the engine and what is left of my warrantee in the long run, and short run, respectively?

I think changing to the new BMW M4 will satisfy your craving for more low end torque while providing similar power and handling characteristics to your 991. If you still want a 911, you must get a Turbo.
 
  #17  
Old 01-22-2014, 03:45 AM
bccars's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: europe
Posts: 713
Rep Power: 55
bccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant future
Originally Posted by LotF View Post
More low rpm torque is the Turbo or a bigger engine.
I like LunarX's suggestion of a supercharger/compressor better than a Turbo!
 
  #18  
Old 01-22-2014, 04:39 AM
Suzy991's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,185
Rep Power: 105
Suzy991 has a reputation beyond reputeSuzy991 has a reputation beyond reputeSuzy991 has a reputation beyond reputeSuzy991 has a reputation beyond reputeSuzy991 has a reputation beyond reputeSuzy991 has a reputation beyond reputeSuzy991 has a reputation beyond reputeSuzy991 has a reputation beyond reputeSuzy991 has a reputation beyond reputeSuzy991 has a reputation beyond reputeSuzy991 has a reputation beyond repute
I absolutely agree with the OP. Low-end torque is missing from all of Porsche's n/a boxer engines.
The next gen, or maybe even the facelift will get downsized, turbocharged engines over the whole line-up (except GT3). Porsche has to, because of some EU environmental regulations and to meet EU6 requirements.

This is good and bad news... It adds more low end torque, but the downside will be that the engines won't rev as high and the sound will be not as nice as it is now. Another downside is the throttle respons. Although way better than previous generations in the 991TT(S), it still is not as good as a n/a 991.

So... Supercharger may be the right answer...? I have no idea if it is as efficient as a turbocharger. If I'm correct, a supercharger also doesn't block exhaust sound?

Suzy991 (iOS app)
 
  #19  
Old 01-22-2014, 05:03 AM
bccars's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: europe
Posts: 713
Rep Power: 55
bccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant futurebccars has a brilliant future
Originally Posted by Suzy991 View Post
I absolutely agree with the OP. Low-end torque is missing from all of Porsche's n/a boxer engines.
The next gen, or maybe even the facelift will get downsized, turbocharged engines over the whole line-up (except GT3). Porsche has to, because of some EU environmental regulations and to meet EU6 requirements.

This is good and bad news... It adds more low end torque, but the downside will be that the engines won't rev as high and the sound will be not as nice as it is now. Another downside is the throttle respons. Although way better than previous generations in the 991TT(S), it still is not as good as a n/a 991.

So... Supercharger may be the right answer...? I have no idea if it is as efficient as a turbocharger. If I'm correct, a supercharger also doesn't block exhaust sound?

Suzy991 (iOS app)
Don't care about low end torque, but Suzy is right. Porsche will have to find a way to comply to the ever stricter rules :-(

And I for one don't want to see a turbo in every variant. Like Suzy said, gone is the sound, gone are the revs, gone is the throttle respons.

And while I'm certainly no expert, I think a supercharger/compressor could be an answer to the downsizing/legislation on one hand and to the call for a sporty driving experience on the other hand.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I presume the SC/compressor can give more power, more torque than regular NA. But it has some tech advantages over a turbo too. It drives of the crank or pulley, so it's linear to the revs, so throttle respons should be ok, no turbo lags either. Has a nicer sound, from the system itself (SC whine instead of turbo airsuck) and from the fact that it doesn't consume/recycle exhaust gasses. SC makes probably less absolute bhp than a turbo, but a 911 was never about absolute power for me so ...

For me, if Porsch HAS to change. Make it a downsized flat six with a compressor.
 
  #20  
Old 01-22-2014, 06:38 AM
ChuckJ's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dallas
Posts: 2,808
Rep Power: 169
ChuckJ has a reputation beyond reputeChuckJ has a reputation beyond reputeChuckJ has a reputation beyond reputeChuckJ has a reputation beyond reputeChuckJ has a reputation beyond reputeChuckJ has a reputation beyond reputeChuckJ has a reputation beyond reputeChuckJ has a reputation beyond reputeChuckJ has a reputation beyond reputeChuckJ has a reputation beyond reputeChuckJ has a reputation beyond repute
I had a C6 Corvette with more low end torque than the car could handle and it was no where near as much fun as driving the 991. It was a lot less expensive, though.

ChuckJ
 
  #21  
Old 01-22-2014, 07:09 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 366
Rep Power: 22
flyanddive will become famous soon enoughflyanddive will become famous soon enough
The 918 is built to solve all those issues, a bit pricey though.
 
  #22  
Old 01-22-2014, 07:22 AM
Rainier's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cape Town - Somerset West
Posts: 302
Rep Power: 30
Rainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud of
It just needs a nice electric motor for the front wheels to deliver a powerfull instant 100Nm or more of RPM independent torque when you need it. The NA engine is just fine for everything else.

This is where it is heading. None of the disadvantages of either turbo or supercharger. Just makes sense.

Rainier
 
  #23  
Old 01-22-2014, 09:31 AM
SM_ATL's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,160
Rep Power: 152
SM_ATL has a reputation beyond reputeSM_ATL has a reputation beyond reputeSM_ATL has a reputation beyond reputeSM_ATL has a reputation beyond reputeSM_ATL has a reputation beyond reputeSM_ATL has a reputation beyond reputeSM_ATL has a reputation beyond reputeSM_ATL has a reputation beyond reputeSM_ATL has a reputation beyond reputeSM_ATL has a reputation beyond reputeSM_ATL has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Rainier View Post
It just needs a nice electric motor for the front wheels to deliver a powerfull instant 100Nm or more of RPM independent torque when you need it. The NA engine is just fine for everything else.

This is where it is heading. None of the disadvantages of either turbo or supercharger. Just makes sense.

Rainier
Thanks Rainier. Interesting perspective on how to keep N/A engines, address the emissions laws and add some low end torque. Only issue will be the weight of batteries but this can be addressed.
 
  #24  
Old 01-22-2014, 10:34 AM
BradB's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 563
Rep Power: 36
BradB is a name known to allBradB is a name known to allBradB is a name known to allBradB is a name known to allBradB is a name known to allBradB is a name known to all
I think the Carrera TDI is just around the corner. Solves all your torque needs.

 
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	standard.jpg
Views:	426
Size:	73.8 KB
ID:	323830  
  #25  
Old 01-22-2014, 01:02 PM
CarreraPete's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Airmont Village, NY
Posts: 507
Rep Power: 40
CarreraPete has much to be proud ofCarreraPete has much to be proud ofCarreraPete has much to be proud ofCarreraPete has much to be proud ofCarreraPete has much to be proud ofCarreraPete has much to be proud ofCarreraPete has much to be proud ofCarreraPete has much to be proud ofCarreraPete has much to be proud ofCarreraPete has much to be proud of
Originally Posted by ChuckJ View Post
I had a C6 Corvette with more low end torque than the car could handle and it was no where near as much fun as driving the 991. It was a lot less expensive, though.

ChuckJ
You got that right. The larger amount of low end torque can work against you on the street; first and second gear were totally useless in my heavily modded C6 Z51 and my ZO6. I was forced to use MT drag radials on the street and still needed to feather the throttle in first gear.

The 991S Manual can be a terrific "red-light bandit" if you know how to drive the car.

I also should mention that some on this board who are complaining about Porsche's low-end torque don't even own a Porsche, and probably have never driven one. Just saying.
 

Last edited by CarreraPete; 01-22-2014 at 01:07 PM.
  #26  
Old 01-22-2014, 06:31 PM
JohnM's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 545
Rep Power: 43
JohnM has much to be proud ofJohnM has much to be proud ofJohnM has much to be proud ofJohnM has much to be proud ofJohnM has much to be proud ofJohnM has much to be proud ofJohnM has much to be proud ofJohnM has much to be proud ofJohnM has much to be proud of
porsche always seems to gear their cars a bit too tall. This has the effect of making them seem a little wimpy at the low revs.

It would be great if porsche just geared down a bit. I've heard a few pros such as Randy Pobst echo the same sentiments.....
 
  #27  
Old 01-23-2014, 01:29 AM
Rainier's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cape Town - Somerset West
Posts: 302
Rep Power: 30
Rainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud ofRainier has much to be proud of
Originally Posted by SM_ATL View Post
Thanks Rainier. Interesting perspective on how to keep N/A engines, address the emissions laws and add some low end torque. Only issue will be the weight of batteries but this can be addressed.
That is happening right now.
Type "Graphene supercapacitors" into Google.

No crappy Lithium batteries needed. Technology is almost ready. In our case we just need extra energy during fast acceleration with the ability to recharge that energy very fast either from braking or via the engine when spare capacity is available (almost always).
So we are talking a KERS system. The Graphene battery would almost be tiny and weight not an issue.

Graphene batteries currently are around 1/3 to 1/2 the energy density of Lithium battery by weight but charge instant with a huge discharge current ability and almost unlimited lifetime (very little battery deterioration after many cycles). They are not chemical "batteries" but capacitors. This is simply crying for application in our 911. Seems there is no reason it could not be done now.

Rainier
 

Last edited by Rainier; 01-23-2014 at 06:06 AM.
  #28  
Old 01-23-2014, 03:17 PM
AG991's Avatar
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,479
Rep Power: 94
AG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Christophosphorus View Post
Exactly, which was the point of including my disclaimer. I'd love to see some member dyno charts from their own experience.


AG, I'm just curious... in what situations do you feel the need for more torque? Especially being PDK, a quick squeeze of the gas pedal should yield a downshift or two, giving you the pick-up pace you need. I had a base Panamera over the weekened with PDK, and I found absolutely no lack of torque for daily driving, even though the transmission would shift into 4th or 5th gear seconds after driving away from a stoplight.


Guys, this is a great discussion and thank you all. Where I miss torque is at a stop light. Getting of the line - getting to third gear, seems slow. Once there, I can just hit the magic PDK button to drop a gear and wow. But I have a mustang with a 4:10 gear (not a fair comparison I know). But even a light touch on the gas and without the tach doing much I am off. I miss that. In know it is a different car, a different driving experience, and that the likely answer is that I should not be such a you know what about hitting the gas harder at the light. But, I mostly drive in NJ and mostly on local roads and small highways, and, as it is JerZ, there is always a crowd. Since it is hard to go more than 40 because of traffic, lights, toll boths and the fuzz looking to up my tax rate a few hundred dollars at a time, big torque is more useful than a lot of ponies.
 
  #29  
Old 01-23-2014, 03:25 PM
KonaKai's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York City
Posts: 965
Rep Power: 61
KonaKai has much to be proud ofKonaKai has much to be proud ofKonaKai has much to be proud ofKonaKai has much to be proud ofKonaKai has much to be proud ofKonaKai has much to be proud ofKonaKai has much to be proud ofKonaKai has much to be proud ofKonaKai has much to be proud ofKonaKai has much to be proud of
Originally Posted by AG991 View Post
Guys, this is a great discussion and thank you all. Where I miss torque is at a stop light. Getting of the line - getting to third gear, seems slow. Once there, I can just hit the magic PDK button to drop a gear and wow. But I have a mustang with a 4:10 gear (not a fair comparison I know). But even a light touch on the gas and without the tach doing much I am off. I miss that. In know it is a different car, a different driving experience, and that the likely answer is that I should not be such a you know what about hitting the gas harder at the light. But, I mostly drive in NJ and mostly on local roads and small highways, and, as it is JerZ, there is always a crowd. Since it is hard to go more than 40 because of traffic, lights, toll boths and the fuzz looking to up my tax rate a few hundred dollars at a time, big torque is more useful than a lot of ponies.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you are in the wrong car for you. You can try to make it something it is not with mods and driving it in upper revs etc... or you can move on and trade it for something that suits you better. Since it's not a rush, go out and test drive some other makes. I truly believe we are in a golden age with a ton of great sports cars. The 991 is too expensive to not deliver what YOU want in a sports car.
 
  #30  
Old 01-23-2014, 03:57 PM
AG991's Avatar
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,479
Rep Power: 94
AG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond reputeAG991 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by KonaKai View Post
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you are in the wrong car for you. You can try to make it something it is not with mods and driving it in upper revs etc... or you can move on and trade it for something that suits you better. Since it's not a rush, go out and test drive some other makes. I truly believe we are in a golden age with a ton of great sports cars. The 991 is too expensive to not deliver what YOU want in a sports car.

I don't take it the wrong way and thanks for the comment. I actually like the drive of the 991 more than the mustang. I love my mustang but it is very one note. It is a good note! Driving down the shore with the top down on a warm summer night - it is wonderful. And I have loved them since I was a kid. I am not a kid anymore and I find that while I want to spice up the Porsche, I want to tone the mustang down - softer suspension (Ford racing upgrade), less aggressive exhaust (from the manifold back Ford racing exhaust), and 4:10 gear (might want to step back to something less).


But the Porsche drives very differently and I like it very much in the curves, in overall acceleration, in the feeling of confidence that if give. and from a style standpoint - well.


And NJ is not the best place for any type of car. Our weather stinks, our roads stink, there are too many cars, cops, deer, pedestrians, etc. No, If I cold get some low end torque, without going crazy and turning the car into something it isn't, and without shelling out for a Turbo, that would be great. If not, I will debate with myself for a while about the new Targa S, and likely just keep the fantastic car that I have.


Still, any ideas are welcome. Thanks all.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:
You have already rated this thread Rating: Thread Rating: 0 votes,  average.

Quick Reply: Low end torque - Please?


Join 6SpeedOnline
Visit our Sponsors

Contact Us About Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.