RTR region of PCA invited an engineer from Castrol to talk tonight and he spent an hour answering questions from our club members. He explained the A40 spec as applicable to our car as well as the basics of synthetic oil fabrication.

Most notable were his comments as follows:

- Original factory fill is the same oil as the off the shelf stuff;
- He strongly recommended an initial oil change within 1000 to 2000 miles saying that "break in" is a process of getting rid of all rough edges - while acknowledging that Porsche engines are well machined and have few such edges to round off;
- He recommended changing oil at 3000 to 5000 mile intervals;
- and, answered the much discussed issue here: on startup, oil temp is not as important as coolant temp. He stated that if the car is warmed up as per coolant temp it's ready to take on spirited driving.

Now, I realize that he's employed by a firm interested in selling you as much oil as you can possibly change, but he sounded sincere in his reasons for frequent oil changes as those who operate vehicles here have frequent stops and starts, and/or high humidity, and/or high dust, and/or cold weather are in the "severe operating" mode and changes at no more than 5k is recommended.

He scoffed at the 10k and 20k recommended intervals while acknowledging that the manufacturer has its reasons for those recommendations.

Simply put, he suggested that frequent oil changes is cheap insurance - "it couldn't hurt" he said.

 

Thanks for the info!

Funny, was just on the phone discussing the 10K oil change intervals with a very well known German service shop. They confirmed it's pretty much a marketing gimmick along with the other extended service intervals. This guy says it how it is, and has even talked me out of doing unnecessary work plenty of times.

They have figured that the luxury import buyers don't own cars long enough for issues to come up. It's only after they're on their third or fourth owner that the negligence shows up in big repairs. At that point, the dealer network and US divisions of Mercedes, Porsche, etc. could care less. Their cash cows are buying all the newer models and these third or fourth owners really don't matter to them.

These German brands always have had reputations of always being in the shop for preventative maintenance and being costly to maintain. So they stretch out the service as a marketing gimmick.

Do as you will, but I like to take good care of my vehicles even if I won't own them for 20 years.

 

Did he address the time issue? In other words if I put 3000 miles on a year, can I still wait until I hit 5k for a change? Should the filter also be changed if you are doing it every 3k miles?

 

I recall that he mentioned that the quality of the gasoline will have a large impact on the longevity of the oil. I suppose one could have the oil examined by a lab, but an oil change is cheaper...I've been changing at 4-5k intervals and did the initial change at 2k

With the exception of one, I've used Mobil 1 in all my cars for the past 20 or so years with 4500 interval change and none have had any engine problems or oil burning issues. The only car that i used dino oil in was a 1989 Volvo 245DL...and it's probably running to this day.....i gave it away at 245,000 miles - original engine and auto tranny - never a problem. Drove my eldest home as an infant from the hospital and gave it to her when she turned 16. Wife made me get rid of it as it did not have air bags or antilock brakes.

 

He addressed that question with a reference to how the car was used. That is, highway use only you could go up 10k. Stop start and and the other severe use (which how he said most cars are driven) 3-5 k.

 

All good common sense recommendations (including the break-in).

The 3000 mile thing seems to have been the oil mfgs recommendation since the beginning of motor oil. It also has been the same for the service side of the industry as well. Both of which obviously stand the most to gain from frequent oil. But in the end it doesn't hurt, but it probably only benefits the owner who owns at the car 100K+ miles.

Now that I've spent a little time understanding synth oil, I'm starting to appreciate it's temperature and "durability" a little more. I had always kind of thought that synth wasn't really necessary, but I can see it value

I'm not sure I'm completely comfortable with the 10,000 mile oil change but a 5K mile change cycle seems pretty reasonable. In my case if I start thinking about it every 3K miles I'm likely to get it done by 5K, lol.

 

Dumb question.... He was from Castrol at a PCA meeting..

To my knowledge Mobil one (specifically 0-W40 and one other grade) is the only Porsche recommended oil for later model 911's . Doesn't mean other brands aren't just as good, but maybe just not tested. Kind of like the P-Zero N ratings.

And at the same time these PCA meetings are a lot broader than just late model 911's so of course Castrol has a market there.

But did he make any statements as to suitability of Castrol use as an alternate to Mobil one for 991's or 997s?

 

Changing your oil is the best thing you can do for the engine. I always change after the break in and for a low mileage car like the 911 with around 3k a year, once a year is fine. On my daily driver - every 7,500 miles. My wife's ML had almost 100k on the odometer after 6 years- same oil regiment, not one problem, and trust me, she doesn't wait for the revs to drop before hauling off (!!

 

Nope. A number of manufactures make A 40 spec oil All suitable for a 991

 

3 months/3000 miles was prudent when:

Gasoline was leaded. Lead salts accumulated in the oil and are highly acidic. Acidic is corrosive.

Gasoline had high sulfur content. Sulfur oxides accumulated in the oil. Sulfur oxides are acidic. Acidic is corrosive.

Engine crankcases breathed to the atmosphere, allowing dirt and moisture to enter. Dirt is abrasive and water promoted corrosion.

Oils were less stable and not synthetic, and were prone to sludging.

Engine tolerances were sloppy and engines relied on a thick film of heavy oil to survive. Heavy oil thickened even further with age and provided minimal protection during cold starts when the majority of wear occurs.

NONE of this is true today. Yet the 3000 mile fallacy continues. People think they are pushing the limits by going 5000 or even 7500 miles. The worst is the specious 'it's cheap insurance' logic. Insurance against what? Lubrication related failure just don't occur anymore. Oil manufacturers have created unbelievably robust synthetic oils, which they want you to know about, but not really.

 

I don't think anyone suggested doing it every 3K miles as a routine. Regardless of the miles, if one year had passed and only 3K miles were driven I'd consider it.

Obviously every 10K seems to be pushing it quite a bit.

 

Good info. I was just with RTR at the Glen a few weeks ago.

BMW does an oil, diff and transmission fluid change on M cars at 1,200 miles--the break-in service. Makes sense. I was surprised that Porsche didn't recommend a similar procedure on the 991.

Knowing I would take my car to the track fairly frequently, I brought the 911 in for its first oil change around 2,000 miles. Conversation with service advisor as follows:

Me: I'm here for an oil and filter change.

SA: Okay. (Checking computer) You only have 2,000 miles. Did you get a service indicator light?

Me: No. I just want to get an oil change now.

SA: Why? You don't need to have it changed for 10,000 miles.

Me: Yeah, I know--I just want to be on the safe side.

SA: You know, it doesn't need to be changed until the service indicator says so--10,000 miles.

Me: I know. Thanks. I still want to have it changed.

SA: You know you'll have to pay for that.

Me: Yes--I know. No problem.

SA: Why do you want to change it now?

Me: Preventative maintenance. It would make me feel better.

SA: Okayyy...have a seat in the waiting area, WEIRDO.

(Didn't really say weirdo, but you could tell she was thinking it.)

It was seriously like pulling teeth. It was akin to breaking the glass in order to pull the fire alarm.

But, I must say, the Mobil 1 makes me happy. I can get it at any Wal-Mart or Target, unlike the BMW M-specific Castrol TWS that you can only get at dealers for $16 a bottle or Turner Motorsport for $13 a bottle.

 

The recommended interval is 1 year/10,000 miles and there is plenty of suggestion that 10,000 miles is WAY too much, with zero substantiation.

I have 2005 BMW 330i with 140,000 miles that gets driven hard and its had 10 oil changes in its entire life and still use no oil, makes the same power and get the same mileage as new. I worked developing Mobil 1 in the 80's and trust me, 10,000 miles isn't pushing the limits at all.

 

Paradocs98,

You sure threw them for a loop which is reality of the modern day dumbship. The clueless service advisors only know what's on the sheet or screen.

Great story!

 

Could very well be. I'm no engineer. Using one 2005 BMW as substantiation is a stretch too. There is no doubt that a lot of the suggested service intervals have been stretched too far though. That's coming from multiple well known shops that work on imports every day.

A car can only get washed every 10K miles too without any rust holes, but my paint will always look better with washing/waxing every couple weeks.