996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

Benefit of 19s vs. 18s

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Old May 4, 2008 | 03:20 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Hamann7
Ummm... I guess you don't think that the modified suspension geometry makes much of a difference then. The race teams seem to think differently. Ever compared the components between the 996 Turbo and the GT2, let alone the 997 GT2? It is night and day! And it's not just coilovers we're talking about.

The 996 Turbo suspension is not optimized for lowered ride heights. That is a fact. This is why people who get serious about handling change the A-arm links, toe control link, control arms, as well as the uprights and even the subframe in some cases to raise the pick up points.
Every time I hear people talking up suspension bits of an already well sorted out car (996TT) as a means to go faster it makes me chuckle. I don’t know your history mate and I wouldn’t want to presume anything but I already explained this on this board numerous times; I am a very fast driver and ridder and a hero at the local race track but I am a crap racing driver when surrounded by pro race drivers and I am not ashamed to admit it. Even a certain girl is faster then me on the ring. If I have learned anything is that a pro driver will kill you in a stock "lada or yugo" no matter how well sorted your car is. GT2 won’t help you if you are facing Walter at the helm of a well tuned 944 Turbo with ancient suspension bits unless 10 miles straights are involved. It’s all subjective. All this PASM is a whole lot of marketing waffle which you clearly bought into. I doubt you can wring out 70% of what you preach here - no offence. Yes GT2 suspension is progress but I wish people like you wouldn’t talk it up like its warp drive versus steam train just because it’s your new toy and you have read lots about it. Lower your 996TT, flash it and then drive it flat out and see how many GT2 drivers keep up. Not pro for a pro but drivers who are enthusiasts or amateur racers like you and I and majority of drivers on this board unless you have some proper racing credentials to show me in order to shut me up. Unless taking part in full time racing, in case of our cars (450bhp+) it’s always going to be a driver’s race and that’s it! I will bet you anything that my mildly tuned 996TT will walk your new GT2 on the ring unless you are a true hot rod as you claim to be. Have you any idea how much a better driver you need to be to go faster in a GT2 than an average Joe in a 996TT. And if it drizzles a bit to boot I really want to see your advanced suspension geometry work for you there against “the crap old 996TT 4 wheel drive leaf spring suspension”. Just name the time, place is the ring. GT2 is superior car only in hands of an absolute pro driver and on the race track. In any other case scenario GT2 is a hindrance. But all this is worthless because the new GTR Nissan will walk us both. To return to the original question then; when going fast tyre feedback is of outmost importance. With 18 you have more period. Therefore I don’t see any benefit fitting 19 inch wheels but for looks as few people who know their stuff already said in this thread.
 
Old May 5, 2008 | 07:08 AM
  #107  
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I feel the need to chime in here... if you spend a few weekends at the track, keep your 18's or use them for snow tires as I do. For the other 50 weekends a year, my 19's look great and really set the car apart from all the other 996TT around Dayton, of which there are probably less than a dozen
 
Old May 5, 2008 | 07:28 AM
  #108  
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I just moved up to 19" and from PZero to PS2.

Well other than the bling - i cannot yet tell a difference - but this is a Cab - not a track car.

From the bling point of view - I dig the new 19" much more.
 
Old May 5, 2008 | 04:15 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Terminator
Every time I hear people talking up suspension bits of an already well sorted out car (996TT) as a means to go faster it makes me chuckle. I don’t know your history mate and I wouldn’t want to presume anything but I already explained this on this board numerous times; I am a very fast driver and ridder and a hero at the local race track but I am a crap racing driver when surrounded by pro race drivers and I am not ashamed to admit it. Even a certain girl is faster then me on the ring. If I have learned anything is that a pro driver will kill you in a stock "lada or yugo" no matter how well sorted your car is. GT2 won’t help you if you are facing Walter at the helm of a well tuned 944 Turbo with ancient suspension bits unless 10 miles straights are involved. It’s all subjective. All this PASM is a whole lot of marketing waffle which you clearly bought into. I doubt you can wring out 70% of what you preach here - no offence. Yes GT2 suspension is progress but I wish people like you wouldn’t talk it up like its warp drive versus steam train just because it’s your new toy and you have read lots about it. Lower your 996TT, flash it and then drive it flat out and see how many GT2 drivers keep up. Not pro for a pro but drivers who are enthusiasts or amateur racers like you and I and majority of drivers on this board unless you have some proper racing credentials to show me in order to shut me up. Unless taking part in full time racing, in case of our cars (450bhp+) it’s always going to be a driver’s race and that’s it! I will bet you anything that my mildly tuned 996TT will walk your new GT2 on the ring unless you are a true hot rod as you claim to be. Have you any idea how much a better driver you need to be to go faster in a GT2 than an average Joe in a 996TT. And if it drizzles a bit to boot I really want to see your advanced suspension geometry work for you there against “the crap old 996TT 4 wheel drive leaf spring suspension”. Just name the time, place is the ring. GT2 is superior car only in hands of an absolute pro driver and on the race track. In any other case scenario GT2 is a hindrance. But all this is worthless because the new GTR Nissan will walk us both. To return to the original question then; when going fast tyre feedback is of outmost importance. With 18 you have more period. Therefore I don’t see any benefit fitting 19 inch wheels but for looks as few people who know their stuff already said in this thread.
I'm not interested in getting into an internet pissing match. I am an OK driver, whether or not I am faster than you or not, I have no idea, nor is it really that important one way or the other. I have owned a 996 Turbo prior to owning a 996 GT2 and for me, I know that I am still faster in the GT2. Just drove the 997 GT2 yesterday and its handling is simply phenomenal, and I can tell you that I am carrying much higher speeds into and through the corners than my previous cars, so for me the new suspension bits work quite well.

It's not the PASM that I am impressed with. What I am talking about has little to do with springs and shocks. The new geometry makes the car much easier to drive, and it turns in far better than the 996 variants... not to mention the car exhibits much less dynamic camber change under load. Yes, I was able to determine this on the way to the grocery store since I am a really slow driver... so I guess it must really work very well. Unless you have had seat time in a 997 GT2, I don't see how you can simply say that I am a bad driver so I can't appreciate the suspension improvements. Clearly, you don't really understand the improvements in the new car compared to your outdated Turbo. Oh well. Ignorance is bliss. With all due respect, I am done arguing with you over something you just don't get.

As for the GTR walking all over us, I guess time will tell.
 
Old May 5, 2008 | 04:24 PM
  #110  
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How can you tell when you are getting camber change from inside the car.

More importantly, how can you distinguish amounts of camber change between different cars on the street with no measuring tools.

I honestly dont know how to tell at all.
 
Old May 5, 2008 | 04:44 PM
  #111  
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It's subjective, but when cornering hard, especially when you're on the throttle, you can feel the way the rear end starts to behave. Noticable dynamic camber change can be often described as the 'twitchiness' in the rear end when you go through a corner. For example, compare your car before and after you change the rear toe links and control arms to the Cup ones. It's a night and day difference that you can feel.
 

Last edited by Hamann7; May 5, 2008 at 04:47 PM.
Old May 6, 2008 | 07:24 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Hamann7
I'm not interested in getting into an internet pissing match. I am an OK driver, whether or not I am faster than you or not, I have no idea, nor is it really that important one way or the other. I have owned a 996 Turbo prior to owning a 996 GT2 and for me, I know that I am still faster in the GT2. Just drove the 997 GT2 yesterday and its handling is simply phenomenal, and I can tell you that I am carrying much higher speeds into and through the corners than my previous cars, so for me the new suspension bits work quite well.

It's not the PASM that I am impressed with. What I am talking about has little to do with springs and shocks. The new geometry makes the car much easier to drive, and it turns in far better than the 996 variants... not to mention the car exhibits much less dynamic camber change under load. Yes, I was able to determine this on the way to the grocery store since I am a really slow driver... so I guess it must really work very well. Unless you have had seat time in a 997 GT2, I don't see how you can simply say that I am a bad driver so I can't appreciate the suspension improvements. Clearly, you don't really understand the improvements in the new car compared to your outdated Turbo. Oh well. Ignorance is bliss. With all due respect, I am done arguing with you over something you just don't get.

As for the GTR walking all over us, I guess time will tell.
I am not interested in a pissing match either but it seems we are comparing apples to oranges. Yes that would be the case stock for stock. Because 996GT2/997GT2 is a face lifted / tuned version of a 996TT with rear wheel, drive less weight and a suspension upgrade. But if you do some suspension work on a 996TT or 997TT and chip them you have a similar performing car for the mere mortals or better even. 996TTS flashed and with upgraded suspension bits posted time 1 second off the 997GT2 on the ring. And if you are an OK driver rather than a pro you will be faster 99% of the time in a “slightly modified” 996TT especially on the road. And if you throw a little bit of rain into the equation, GT2 is actually toast - superior geometry or not. If you can’t agree with the above statement you must be just below OK driver. Straights excluded! I am done on this matter.
.
 
Old May 6, 2008 | 10:52 AM
  #113  
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It doesn't rain much out here, so I really wouldn't know

And I've got other cars to drive in the rain... so usually GT2 stays at home in the rain.

On sunny days, I'm faster in the GT2 than the Turbo 99% of the time. Must be something weird about my driving.
 
Old May 6, 2008 | 11:40 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Hamann7
It doesn't rain much out here, so I really wouldn't know

And I've got other cars to drive in the rain... so usually GT2 stays at home in the rain.

On sunny days, I'm faster in the GT2 than the Turbo 99% of the time. Must be something weird about my driving.
Hamann7, how about posting some pics of the new ride?
 
Old May 6, 2008 | 11:54 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Hamann7
It doesn't rain much out here, so I really wouldn't know

And I've got other cars to drive in the rain... so usually GT2 stays at home in the rain.

On sunny days, I'm faster in the GT2 than the Turbo 99% of the time. Must be something weird about my driving.
Must be... .

Anyway, congrats on your new toy. Pics? Ps. I am really just jealous. .
 
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