Scratched discs post trackday
Some guys on here actually use yellows up front and black in the rear, which gives more bite in the back and supposedly stabilizes the car. I've never tried it, and wouldn't recommend it to someone without a lot of track experience.
Jon
You guys will forgive me, as I didn't bother to read the rest of the thread, I stopped at Jon's comment below...
From the pics, I'd check the minimum spec on the rotors themselves and make sure you don't "need" rotors. 32MM front and 26MM rear are the wear limits and you want to check at various points across the rotor from the outter edge moving in towards the hat. For that pad material in the rotor holes, I use brake cleaner to soak them down and get it out... I've had zero issues with problems related to doing this and it actually helps stave off "pedal shudder from pad material build up". FYI, Pagid orange pads are horrible for this!
I agree with Jon on swapping out your pads. Once you do this once or twice, you'll get it down to a 30-45minute swap. Porsche brakes are super simple and the caliper hardware makes pad swaps butt simple. I also don't bother using the wear pad sensors. Just fold them back out of the way and ziptie them to the brake line or sensor bracket on the suspension knuckle.
If you're going to track your car, you should plan to get familiar with the brakes because you will need to O&M them on a frequent basis. Buy a motiv bleeder and plan to bleed your brakes before a weekend.
It is very easy to overcome the stock brakes and cause the pedal to sink (boiled fluid). You essentially have to re-learn how to brake with this car. I go into a braking zone with a very "light" amount of pressure on the pedal and apply more steady pressure as needed until I get to the "entry speed" needed for the corner. This allows the brakes to do their job more consistantly. If you jump on the pedal deep in a high speed section and try to "late brake", you'll eventually boil the fluid and have inconsistant issues... Take your time, pick your places to brake hard, and get off the brakes as much as possible so you avoid this issue...
Lots of info here on brakes and some brake failures, so read up and plan accordingly!
Mike
From the pics, I'd check the minimum spec on the rotors themselves and make sure you don't "need" rotors. 32MM front and 26MM rear are the wear limits and you want to check at various points across the rotor from the outter edge moving in towards the hat. For that pad material in the rotor holes, I use brake cleaner to soak them down and get it out... I've had zero issues with problems related to doing this and it actually helps stave off "pedal shudder from pad material build up". FYI, Pagid orange pads are horrible for this!
I agree with Jon on swapping out your pads. Once you do this once or twice, you'll get it down to a 30-45minute swap. Porsche brakes are super simple and the caliper hardware makes pad swaps butt simple. I also don't bother using the wear pad sensors. Just fold them back out of the way and ziptie them to the brake line or sensor bracket on the suspension knuckle.
If you're going to track your car, you should plan to get familiar with the brakes because you will need to O&M them on a frequent basis. Buy a motiv bleeder and plan to bleed your brakes before a weekend.
It is very easy to overcome the stock brakes and cause the pedal to sink (boiled fluid). You essentially have to re-learn how to brake with this car. I go into a braking zone with a very "light" amount of pressure on the pedal and apply more steady pressure as needed until I get to the "entry speed" needed for the corner. This allows the brakes to do their job more consistantly. If you jump on the pedal deep in a high speed section and try to "late brake", you'll eventually boil the fluid and have inconsistant issues... Take your time, pick your places to brake hard, and get off the brakes as much as possible so you avoid this issue...
Lots of info here on brakes and some brake failures, so read up and plan accordingly!
Mike
Andy -
There appears to be a lot of pad material filling the holes in the rotor, another sign that the pads are giving up. You can clean that out with compressed air or one at a time with a small punch.
Some people disagree, but I think that you should have two sets of pads. One for the street - stock is fine - and another for the track. I use Pagid Yellow pads for the track. Others will tell you Pagid Orange, and other brands as well. IMO, none of the track pads should be used on the street. They are meant to be used hot, and so they don't work so well on the street. Plus, they make a lot of noise.
Welcome to the track. It is addicting, as noted above.
Jon
There appears to be a lot of pad material filling the holes in the rotor, another sign that the pads are giving up. You can clean that out with compressed air or one at a time with a small punch.
Some people disagree, but I think that you should have two sets of pads. One for the street - stock is fine - and another for the track. I use Pagid Yellow pads for the track. Others will tell you Pagid Orange, and other brands as well. IMO, none of the track pads should be used on the street. They are meant to be used hot, and so they don't work so well on the street. Plus, they make a lot of noise.
Welcome to the track. It is addicting, as noted above.
Jon
Last edited by Mikelly; Dec 7, 2008 at 06:20 AM.
I agree with most of what Mike said. It's been so long since I tied off the wear sensors, I forgot about them. 
Also agree with how easy it is to swap pads. There are lots of aids for bleeding the brakes so that you can do it without a second person in the car.
I disagree with Mike in part about how to brake for a corner. I do agree that trying to time it perfectly to lay on max braking at the last possible moment will usually cost you more time from getting it wrong, and tend to make you overbrake and overheat the brakes. I prefer a little bit different technique:
1. Pick your brake point as some fixed reference on the track.
2. At that point apply moderate pressure for an instant to set the pads on the rotors, then immediately hard pressure to the threshold of lock-up. While you are learning that point, you may feel ABS pulsing. When you get this right, you should feel it only occasionally.
3. As you approach the corner, release the brake gradually as you turn in. You are trying to make the car track the friction circle. (If you are unfamiliar with what that is, here is a very basic intro:
http://www.auto-ware.com/setup/fc1.htm
Coming off the brake allows the suspension to settle back a little to take a new set for the corner.
4. If you find that you have overslowed for the corner, then move your brake point forward 25 feet next time. Keep doing this until you are consistently at a the right entry speed.
Doing it this way builds the minimum of heat in the rotors. It also takes the fear factor out of these turns.
One more tip: If you focus your eyes on the entry point while hard braking, you will always overslow the car. I tell students to "Index your eyes" as they appraoch the corner, Entry-apex-entry-apex... This helps you gauge your entry speed. As you get closer to the corner, the indexing goes entry-apex-exit-apex-entry...
Jon
Also agree with how easy it is to swap pads. There are lots of aids for bleeding the brakes so that you can do it without a second person in the car.I disagree with Mike in part about how to brake for a corner. I do agree that trying to time it perfectly to lay on max braking at the last possible moment will usually cost you more time from getting it wrong, and tend to make you overbrake and overheat the brakes. I prefer a little bit different technique:
1. Pick your brake point as some fixed reference on the track.
2. At that point apply moderate pressure for an instant to set the pads on the rotors, then immediately hard pressure to the threshold of lock-up. While you are learning that point, you may feel ABS pulsing. When you get this right, you should feel it only occasionally.
3. As you approach the corner, release the brake gradually as you turn in. You are trying to make the car track the friction circle. (If you are unfamiliar with what that is, here is a very basic intro:
http://www.auto-ware.com/setup/fc1.htm
Coming off the brake allows the suspension to settle back a little to take a new set for the corner.
4. If you find that you have overslowed for the corner, then move your brake point forward 25 feet next time. Keep doing this until you are consistently at a the right entry speed.
Doing it this way builds the minimum of heat in the rotors. It also takes the fear factor out of these turns.
One more tip: If you focus your eyes on the entry point while hard braking, you will always overslow the car. I tell students to "Index your eyes" as they appraoch the corner, Entry-apex-entry-apex... This helps you gauge your entry speed. As you get closer to the corner, the indexing goes entry-apex-exit-apex-entry...
Jon
You instructors! 
Jon's right, and that is what I "used to do" before getting into my 996TT... Then I over-drove the brakes and had to re-learn how to drive the car while making the stock brakes last. Now with the GT3 caliper and 350MM rotor front and rear, it is so much easier to balance the car and get back to just what Jon mentions above. However, Prior to the brake upgrade I had serious inconsistancy issues due to the fluid boiling...
Mike
Jon's right, and that is what I "used to do" before getting into my 996TT... Then I over-drove the brakes and had to re-learn how to drive the car while making the stock brakes last. Now with the GT3 caliper and 350MM rotor front and rear, it is so much easier to balance the car and get back to just what Jon mentions above. However, Prior to the brake upgrade I had serious inconsistancy issues due to the fluid boiling...
Mike
I agree with most of what Mike said. It's been so long since I tied off the wear sensors, I forgot about them. Also agree with how easy it is to swap pads. There are lots of aids for bleeding the brakes so that you can do it without a second person in the car.
I disagree with Mike in part about how to brake for a corner. I do agree that trying to time it perfectly to lay on max braking at the last possible moment will usually cost you more time from getting it wrong, and tend to make you overbrake and overheat the brakes. I prefer a little bit different technique:
1. Pick your brake point as some fixed reference on the track.
2. At that point apply moderate pressure for an instant to set the pads on the rotors, then immediately hard pressure to the threshold of lock-up. While you are learning that point, you may feel ABS pulsing. When you get this right, you should feel it only occasionally.
3. As you approach the corner, release the brake gradually as you turn in. You are trying to make the car track the friction circle. (If you are unfamiliar with what that is, here is a very basic intro:
http://www.auto-ware.com/setup/fc1.htm
Coming off the brake allows the suspension to settle back a little to take a new set for the corner.
4. If you find that you have overslowed for the corner, then move your brake point forward 25 feet next time. Keep doing this until you are consistently at a the right entry speed.
Doing it this way builds the minimum of heat in the rotors. It also takes the fear factor out of these turns.
One more tip: If you focus your eyes on the entry point while hard braking, you will always overslow the car. I tell students to "Index your eyes" as they appraoch the corner, Entry-apex-entry-apex... This helps you gauge your entry speed. As you get closer to the corner, the indexing goes entry-apex-exit-apex-entry...
Jon
Also agree with how easy it is to swap pads. There are lots of aids for bleeding the brakes so that you can do it without a second person in the car.I disagree with Mike in part about how to brake for a corner. I do agree that trying to time it perfectly to lay on max braking at the last possible moment will usually cost you more time from getting it wrong, and tend to make you overbrake and overheat the brakes. I prefer a little bit different technique:
1. Pick your brake point as some fixed reference on the track.
2. At that point apply moderate pressure for an instant to set the pads on the rotors, then immediately hard pressure to the threshold of lock-up. While you are learning that point, you may feel ABS pulsing. When you get this right, you should feel it only occasionally.
3. As you approach the corner, release the brake gradually as you turn in. You are trying to make the car track the friction circle. (If you are unfamiliar with what that is, here is a very basic intro:
http://www.auto-ware.com/setup/fc1.htm
Coming off the brake allows the suspension to settle back a little to take a new set for the corner.
4. If you find that you have overslowed for the corner, then move your brake point forward 25 feet next time. Keep doing this until you are consistently at a the right entry speed.
Doing it this way builds the minimum of heat in the rotors. It also takes the fear factor out of these turns.
One more tip: If you focus your eyes on the entry point while hard braking, you will always overslow the car. I tell students to "Index your eyes" as they appraoch the corner, Entry-apex-entry-apex... This helps you gauge your entry speed. As you get closer to the corner, the indexing goes entry-apex-exit-apex-entry...
Jon
When I first got this car, after driving an '87 911 for 9 years on track, I had the same brake problems that Mike described, and for the same reason. I had to learn how to drive this car - it's fast and it's heavy.
I still have stock brakes, and run Pagid yellows and Motul 600 fluid. No brake problems - even at Road America, which is a really fast track. I just don't use them as much. Part of that is getting the suspension dialed in so you can carry more speed in the turns, part of it is getting your head dialed in to the higher speeds.
Jon
I still have stock brakes, and run Pagid yellows and Motul 600 fluid. No brake problems - even at Road America, which is a really fast track. I just don't use them as much. Part of that is getting the suspension dialed in so you can carry more speed in the turns, part of it is getting your head dialed in to the higher speeds.
Jon
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