The hardware for the 28s and 30s are the same (to my knowledge at least).

The tial turbos have internal waste gates also which other GT turbo kits do not.

My car is not done yet but I do not expect it to be any less drivable (if thats what you mean by streetable) then 28s....or k24/18gs for that matter. But we will see when its done

 

Yes, I would love to see your results. Is it going to be together anytime soon?

 

Powells car drives great with a very similar setup to yours, I'm sure your car will be a monster!

 

With GT30s, you will be living on the border line of an internal built, either soon or later. You'll also need more fuel. It can get quite expensive.

 

We use real GT2860rs turbos with Tial 44mm External Wastegates. The tial turbos EVO has used for a long time. They were T28 cartridges stuffed in a K16 or K24 housing until Tial finally casted the exhaust side. External wastegates make a significant more amount of torque bypassing the entire exhaust system. Dr Jitsu can attest to our GT3076 combo as well as some others. Call me, I will explain it all...

 

The full GT 30's require a lot of adaptive hardware. I see that there are now some bolt on (by bolt on I mean bolt on to the stock manifolds w/ internal wastegates) GT 30's available. The bolt ons are more expensive than the full Gt 30's alone, but once the required which require the headers etc are factored in the full Monty costs more. The full Gt 30's also come w/ the external wastgates which I absolutely LOVE. Considering all the other stuff in my car (fuel system, triple carbon clutch...about 130K in all) IMO it was worth it to go all out. This will not be the case for everyone, in fact for many 24/18's or GT 28's and a stock fuel system w/ an organic clutch will be a better choice. There seems to be some dispute about whether or not the 24/18's will beat the GT 28's (they will beat the old K 16 hotside hybrid GT 28, which is a great track turbo but dies out on top for highway roll ons) but what I have seen favors the 24/18's. GT 28's are a better quality turbo in terms of replacing parts. Going beyond 24/18's or GT 28's is when more power starts getting very expensive. In my case it was also not easy getting everything perfect, but Dan did a great job of helping out and giving me very good prices when the going got narrow.

I am OK on the stock block by staying at 1.1 bars on pump. To make the extra 140 rwhp at 1.5 I absolutely have to run C 16 and I only do it now and then. At 1.1 bars I run even w/ 24/18sheaders, injectors, exhuast on race gas and 1.4. When I am at 1.5 I beat everything except cars like the full motor build GT 35 monsters (that are close to 100K on top of the car).

 

Dan, can you explain why the externals make more torque ? Do you have dyno charts showing the differences? What exactly are the gains? I am assuming the crack pressure of the gates was the same on both setups when you tested these?

 

I'm not sure how that can really be true....it is my understanding that creating more tq is all in the boost control. The sooner the boost ramps in, the more tq made.

It seems to me that the tune and boost control will help make more tq, regardless of external or internal wg's.

You aren't suggesting that the external gate FLOWS more, to allow an increase in tq, are you?

 

Audikp, do you have a time frame on completion of your setup? Also do you think from your research that the gt30 makes more sense than the gt28? I guess I am looking for equal or more than a 24/18 setup.

 

Dan-

I've seen you state multiple times that external wastgates produce more torque then an internal gate.... Im not sure how this is true, can you explain?

I reviewed your original test data that that lead you to this conclusion and may have found a BIG hole in your theory. Looking at the dyno chart below, your car was running 14.3psi (.98 bar) of boost with the internal gates and 18.0psi (1.25) of boost with the external. To accurately compare the 2 set ups, you would have needed to run the EXACT same boost.

Of course stuffing 4+ psi more air into the motor will proces more trouque and is somthing that can be eaily done on ANY turbo upgrade.

 

When the Dr is serious, he gives good info... +rep point.

 

The Tial Alpha 28rs/30r's we sell use genuine Garret chra's in custom stainless steel cast housings. They are completely resigned from the older k16/k24 based tial turbos. They are direct bolt on without having to reconfigure or add any major hardware components.

Basically, the install is nearly as easy and straight forward as a k24/18g, yet the power potential is far greater.

Pros of the Tial/EPL Set up -
Direct bolt-on with easy install.
Retains factory oil lines and uses easy to install water lines.
No need to add headers, external wastegates, etc.
Easily retains factory boost control.
Incredibly easy to go back to stock if you ever wanted to trade your car in.


Cons -
The 30r's have potential to make more power then the stock block can handle (wait, is that really a con ? )

 

Hey Tony,
What would you suggest as supporting mods if someone were to goto the GT30 setup? Beside the obvious clutch and fueling... specifically motor build wise what would you recomend? How much power could someone run reliably on a stock bottom end. AND if you were to compare a stock bottom end K24/18G car with a GT30 variant (with stock engine as well) how much of a difference would it be?

 

When I first saw them they were a dream come true...then I saw the price (around 5K) I paid 2.8K for my GT 30's but of course all the adapive hardware evened things out.

 

[quote=Tony@epl;2336582]The Tial Alpha 28rs/30r's we sell use genuine Garret chra's in custom stainless steel cast housings. They are completely resigned from the older k16/k24 based tial turbos. They are direct bolt on without having to reconfigure or add any major hardware components.


Tony, what happened to our conversation? I'm guessing you don't need my car to do the testing on the 28's on the west coast? I was just expecting a reply after our phone conversation that day. Sorry to hijack thread, but what Tony and I were working on would've been great stuff for this thread.