Seriously, there are two things that my M3s always had over the 996tt (or felt like it at least)

1. suspension feel. The m3 always felt like it handled much better (yes, my car had upgraded suspension, but even the factory suspension felt "better" than the suspension on this $150K car). The m3 just felt so nimble. Hopefully, this will be resolved with coilovers in the near future once I determine the best setup for me...

AND

2. BRAKE FEEL! I realize that the M3 is one of the best stopping cars ever made, but it shouldnt make a porsche turbo feel like Im stopping a semi truck... I dont know if im just not used to a 4wd car or if my brakes are in horrible shape, but I am very good about maintenance and know I have plenty of pad life left. Maybe I'm just not used to finally having a ton of HP and having to slow it down . In all honesty, I feel like there is brake improvement to be made even when coming to a traffic light from the speed limit. I figured that a good start would be a complete brake flush, a more aggressive pad (quiet enough for the street), and maybe stainless steel brake lines. Hopefully, this can point me in the right direction.

Usually, I start my search at tirerack.com, but they only offer one set of goodridge brake lines or complete brembo kits. I would like to stay away from a 2k+ brembo kit or the $2,200 performance friction kit if possible and I am not familiar with goodridge brake lines. Can ayone recommend a good set of SS lines and more aggressive replacement pads for the street and a good place to buy from? (any other suggestions in terms of helping brake feel would be appreciated)

Thanks!

 

The M3 is more tossable than the TT. It is a funner car to drive, even if substantially slower. The TT suffers from massive understeer and needs suspension mods to dial that out. The TT feels more firm, but does not have the steering feel of the M3's which are some of the best handling cars (E46, E36) of the last 2.5 decades. The TT out of the box in not a handler, fast yes, but not precise.

Steering response will be greatly improved with a good set of coilovers and a rear sway.

As for the brakes, the modulation on the 996 TT brakes is pretty bad, you have to push the pedal pretty hard to get max braking power, it is not good for smooth braking because you feel like you are standing on the brakes. I don't mind the squeaking so I can't give you something that doesn't do it, but the pagid blacks greatly reduce the modulation problem. My moms Ford explorer has better brake modulation. You can get the job done, but it's not fun.

 

What do you exactly mean by 'brake modulation' ? I don't think the brakes are bad at all for this car. You have to jump on them hard like you do with a race car. I have had no problem with my brakes. Maybe it's the pads the OP is using? air bubbles on the system ? Anyways, the brakes are pretty damn stiff on my car which i really like. Get really hard on them and then slowly trail brake it into a turn if you must. Are the gt3's brakes an upgrade ? sure but i don't think is that substantial that a newb who is not tracking his car can tell the diffs. Sure he will say he can but you only really extrack/feel the diffs at the track not on a normal road---and thats comming from someone who drives 'aggresive ' on the road.


As for the M3 e46/36 or any BMW car that I have driven. I would say it gives you a bigger sense of confidence to do Rocky Balboa stunts. Reason from my point of view, is because you don't have the mental barrier in your head thinking the engine is in the wrong place, and you have heard of how terrible it can get out of hand. also when yo uare not going as fast, and the person is not trained / track expeirnece he is not use the speed a fast car can reach and you end up slowing a lot down and using the brakes quite a bit more-- and you feel like you didnt go fast enough in X turn. Example, in the BMW i can go WOT on Z turn while on the Porsche I have to brake a bit and cruise through the turn. It feels much faster in the BMW because i was WOT but inreallity you were not going faster then in the Porsche. It has to do with confidence, also some turns a underpowerd car will be faster then high hp car, because of what just mentioned earlier... WOT while another car is off throttle.

 

You absolutely have to stand on the brakes much more in the Porsche than the M. I've got a 330ci as a daily driver, whose brakes aren't as good as the M3, and the brakes initially felt like they were better than those on my Turbo. You could just tap the brakes and they worked. You need to really stomp on the brakes to make the Turbo stop. Also, I think you "feel" the speed more in the BMW than the Turbo. That would make the change of speed more visible as well.

 

EXACTLY! Is it possible to fix this to make it feel more like the BMW? If so, what do I need to do?

 

I have never owned a sedan, so have never driven a BMW. That being said, the turbo is heavy, but I've never felt the brakes were a problem. I did upgrade to 6 piston GT3 front calipers and 350mm discs at all 4 corners, but that is because I track the car. And that did make a big difference in handling the car's weight. That and I use Pagid race pads.
The other thing I would say is that the sense of speed in the turbo is way off from reality. At 130 I feel like 95 in any other car, and this may contribute to the sense that the car takes longer to stop. In reality, it doesn't. Porsche brakes are usually about the best brakes in the world. All the newer Porsches, including the 996TT, have brakes made by Brembo. As a comparison you might want to look in the back of Road&Track magazine to see that the 911 series routinely outbrakes BMWs, especially at higher speeds.
If I were you and didn't track the car, I would try changing brake pads until you find what you are looking for.

 

I'm not sure there's much to do besides changing your driving style. I'm guessing that the BMW has a bit more hydraulic assist in the braking, at least when you gently touch the peddle, like in stop-and-go traffic. I'm telling myself that the Porsche's brakes are more "race-y," as you literally have to stand on the brakes of a Formula 1 car to get them to stop. I've only driven maybe a thousand miles on my Turbo, but I prefer the "feel" of the BMW brakes better at this point. I'm sure the Porsche stops in half of the distance, but I can get a more precise brake response, given my minimal miles in the Turbo, from my BMW. I'll probably look at this statement in a few months and laugh, but that's where I'm at now. Again, I'm not saying that the BMW brakes are better at stopping, but I know when I push down with X amount of pressure, I will slow down by Y amount. This equates to a smoother driving experience for me.

 

On the brakes......if I recall correctly I think there's a DIY over on RennTech for that Ford Explorer brake mod.

 

I agree! The brake of my TT is not impressive. Even my new E230 brakes a lot "better" and gives me more confidence when I need to stop the car quickly. My wife can stop the E230 easily with her big toe.
The brake of my diablo is also a nightmare.

 

I don't like getting on the brakes hard initially. I like to upset the car as little as possible with as little dive into sqaut as possible. The car handles the turns much better this way. Progressively smooth brake inputs. I always find it hard in the TT to brake in this fashion unless there are pagid blacks on the car. This is also why I hated the yellows, you have to stand on them for bite. It doens't both me most places but i have two in mind (turn 10a at Road Atlanta and 5 at Barber) that are very fast downhill braking zones. I either have to stand on it to the point of ABS or underbrake by a ton. I feel the brake modulation in the BMW is better, and that's it, the Porsche will own the BMW lap after lap in the braking zones, I'm simply talking the mechanics of the braking system.

As for the engine in the wrong spot I've never had the thought of that, all I've felt is the extra traction on corner exit and the inherent scrubbing push that comes with all Porsches. Very confidence inspiring to me, not made for tossing the car around, but certainly made to get on the power quickly out of turns.

 

Got it. Just giving my opinion . Yea that engine in the wrong place lol.... i tell myself i should drive in reverse to correct the situatian

 

We need some history to give you a better answer. How many miles have you put on these brakes and how HARD have you used them. Are they totally stock?

BTW, I have an S54 Roadster and I understand what you mean. The Bimmers have a lot more brake boost which makes for a very different and light feel.

I have a 930 that I traded from a friend a long time ago. When I first got it and until I changed to a Brembo setup it had so-so brakes. They just didn't stop very well and had a very heavy pedal to get anything done. It wasn't until I was doing the Brembo swap that I realized he had racing pads in it and he never used it hard enough to get them really well bedded in. They were glazed up and that was all that was wrong with them.
When I first drove the new big Brembos the car wouldn't stop! I did it down at my brother's in SCal and it wasn't until I was driving down the Grapevine on I-5 coming home that I was able to get them heated up enough to properly bed them in. That one long downhill descent and the brakes were transformed!

While I am at it, my wife has an Audi allroad. These are heavy with huge front brakes. I had new rotors/pads installed and when I went to pick it up they told me I needed a new master cylinder because it wouldn't stop. I told them in no uncertain terms that the brakes were FINE when it came in except for the rotors being down to minimum and asked them if they had specifically bedded them in. This was one of those moments when you see the guys all giving each other "the look" and they proceeded to do just that. Result: great brakes.

I can't comment on your tt. I my closest comparison is my GT2 so it is apples and oranges. Unless you are racing there hasn't been another manfuacturer with brakes as good as Porsches. They have ALWAYS been known for having more brakes than..anything else. I doubt you "need" more brakes if it is a street car. Probably something isn't right or you are making the judgement based on that heavier feel. I am not certain but I believe there is some ability to adjust the linkage/mc to lighten the pedal feel. This might help.

GL

JR

 

Yes the Porsches have good braking Reputation and if you look at magazine comparos are always the best of their time, but if you've been on track and gotten murdered in the braking zone by a GT3 you see which ones that apply to the most, and I don't think the GT3's ever have great test braking results but on the track they eat up all the room you gained on the straight. At least for me they have. Very frustrating.

 

To the OP, so which is more important, that the brakes feel a certain way{like a BMW}, or that they actually stop the car in a shorter distance{Porsche}?

 

Both are important, I know of several guys who've had brief ABS failures on track and the result was a wasted set of tires due to flat spotting. Riding the ABS all the time only causes the system to work overtime and have lapses from time to time.

If I only had one to choose from though it would be the better braking. I do disagree that the brakes are actually better as he described. They are not. The modulation and feel is though.