So in other words, you don't know what the nexus is? You haven't explained how an officer has PC to search your car when you are stopped for an emission violation. Do us all a favor and explain it for us, I'd like to hear it. Don't tell me to research the 4th admendment, I know it very well when it comes to vehicle searches. You brought it up, so you explain it. If you can't explain it then obviously you don't know what you're talking about. I'll gladly wait for your next post.

 

Hi Adam,

That is correct, but I would not underestimate how easy it is for the Officers to get to probable cause. For instance, assume you are stopped for an emissions violation (in California, that can be as simple as an exhaust). The cop looks in the car and see gauges. Then he sees (or sees what appear to be) aftermarket actuating switches on the dash. He removes you from the car and searches your trunk. How? The testimony would go like this...

"I heard the car approaching with an irregular exhaust noise. This car is a ______ which I see and observe multiple times per day. This noise was unlike the exhaust note that I typically observe. As the car passed, I noticed a non-factory looking exhaust. Based on those two facts, I felt there was a reasonable suspicion that the car may not comply with California emissions regulations so I initiated a stop.

Upon approach, I noticed additional gauges in the car. Through my training and observations in the field, I know that these gauges are typically used with aftermarket performance systems that violate California CARB rules. Then, when I got a full view, I noticed aftermarket triggering switches in the dash. Based on the combination of these factors, I initiated a search of the trunk because I felt that I had probable cause that more emissions violations would be found in the trunk. Specifically, the combination of exhaust, gauges, and switches are, according to my training and in-field experience, synonomyous with nitrous oxide systems, and N2O systems are almost always kept in the trunk."

Is that a sure fire winner in court? No. But it's not bad. I would not be overly thrilled to be your lawyer in that case trying to suppress whatever contraban was found (or, more cynically, planted) in your trunk.

For clairification, the probable cause only allows the cops to look where contraban might reasonably be found. It is not illegal to have emissions violating equipment in a box. Thus, the officer, despite maybe having probable cause to look in your trunk, would not have probable cause to rifle through the interior or containers. If, on the other hand, he had probable cause for drugs, drugs can be hidden anywhere and he can basically look anywhere.

Of course... "Further, based on my training, such equipment is often associated with gangs and/or drug money/operations. Both are synonomous with weapons. Therefore, I felt that my safety was in question and initiated an interior search for weapons."

Again, not great. But not terrible. If your judge watched Fast and Furious one too many times, they'll bite -- and I'm not being flip.

 

No you don't.

 

No. All you're doing in disclosing the info to the officer is allowing him to have that bit of information before he runs your driver's license... It's a courtesy, nothing more, and the right thing to do.

NOTHING is more unnerving that doing a stop on a vehicle. You don't know if you are pulling over someone wanted for a string of murders or just a regular joe who didn't know they had completed a traffic violation...

Mike

 

"My day" was back in the 80s and we simply were trained (In Virginia and at the federal level) not to forget that we're dealing with humans and fellow citizens and that MOST of us are guilty of our traffic infractions and nothing more...

Society is certainly more violent these days, and I appreciate the stress most law enforcement are under. My point was that is seems more and more like those I come into contact with (atleast in my region) assume you are a drug dealer with crack/pot/pills/powder/needles on you and an arsenal in the trunk.

I'm polite when I'm stopped, but I'm not a "wealth" of information beyond the "officer I've got a conseal/carry permit and a glock .40 in this hip pouch. What would you like me to do?"

It really boils down to the types of scenarios played out in this thread... As Law Jolla commented, nothing more pisses me than when you have a cop who thinks he knows the law who is trying to cite you for something else that you know is incorrect. In Virginia we have an antique tag law that allows for vehicles older than 25 years to be driven any time for pleasure. You can drive it up to 250 miles from your home. However, you better have a copy of the Va. code with you because the law changed oh 10 years ago? And most cops STILL don't know it. I was hastled more for that when my Datsun V8Zcar project was roaming the local streets. I'd get pulled over constantly, and they'd start chewing me a new butt, and I'd pop the glove compartment to get the registration and the COPY of the code that DMV provided me. That generally shut them down...

Law Jolla nailed it. They aren't supposed to know the penal code... however you have a BUNCH of them who try to... Nothing burns me worse than a cop wanting to chew you out on the side of the road... I get it, I apparently did something that you think broke such and such code, but again, write me a ticket, take me in, or let me go...

I know it sounds like I am in constant battle with the cops. In reality, I have had ONE speeding ticket in the last several years. I didn't even protest. I was guilty as charged, he was in the perfect spot, and I accepted and paid it. I was also on a motorcycle and there was nothing to search. But hey, the few times I've been stopped in the Porsche have been "reasonable". But the good experiences do not outweigh the bad, for me, and for others...Reality is that we're all in titled to our views and opinions... Mine is simple - Don't volunteer jack... don't excessively chat with them, and don't offer up a free pass to search your car. If you do both, you're just adding much more risk to the ability for you to walk away with much more than just a ticket... That simple, in my mind... And yea, I know the rules...

Mike

 

I agree with you and respect your views, Mike. If you don't want to get searched, say no (what this thread was about to begin with). Without a reason any good cop won't illegally search your car. If they have reason, well then that's your own fault and stand by for the consequences, whatever they may be.

And while there are officers who aren't familiar with the laws they try to enforce (bad idea IMO, if I'm not sure about something I'll kick the person loose and research it more when I get home so I'm more prepared next time), lets not pretend there aren't roadside lawyers who tell me I can't write them a ticket because I didn't show them the radar, didn't have my parking lights on, or am not wearing my hat. They usually try to bring up the same points in court, and since I know I did my job perfectly, get shut down by even the most liberal of judges.

Law Jolla laid case law out, unbiased to either side, I have my limitations as a cop and as you as Joe Citizen have your limitations. It is what it is.

 

I'm lucky enough to live in a place that's a cross between Disneyland and the Twilight Zone. Our summer population on the Outer Banks of NC is well north of 200,000. Our winter population is about 30,000 locals with a scattered 5,000 to 10,000 vacationers. We have the same number of cops in the winter as we do in the summer. The only reason they wear badges is to keep from arresting one another.
Cops are like anyone else in that they want/need to feel productive. They really seem to go out of their way in the winter to target local kids. They look for a reason to stop kids and usually swarm all over them and frequently the first thing they do is demand to search the car. When my kids were growing up, I told them if they really wanted trouble, let a cop search your car and you'll get plenty from me. They were stopped a time or two and the cops were initially put off but when the kids told them to call me to get permission, they backed off.
The kids here are like kids anywhere else. They will sometimes overstep their limits and they need to be held accountable. They do get a sort of perverted sense of reality when they see such a large part of the population in party mode but for the most part our kids are well grounded and don't need to be harassed by cops doing busy work.
The cops here do a good job, generally, but they'll take shortcuts if you let them, just like they will anywhere else.

 

First, I think we all agree that both sides can be professional and polite in a stop. In fact, I've actually thanked a cop when he gave me a ticket because he was so professional. (I hate when they act like it's some cat and mouse game and they just won. This guy was "hey, no big deal, but this is what I'm paid to do so here you go." Cool.

In another instance in my younger days, I was cited for drag racing. The Officer didn't see it, so he was trying to illicit a confession. I stuck to my rights (remained silent, did not consent to search), but I wasn't a ***** about it. He told me "I could take you to jail, but I respect how you've handled this."

To your point, I can't even fathom how many roadside lawyers you get per day -- and even the occasional idiot/obnoxious real lawyer. The difference, of course, is that you have the gun and the backing of society. They don't. In my opinion, their sometimes outrageous behavior is generally more tolerable/understandable.

The bottom line (for everyone else) on the searches is rarely is there a bright line. It's shades of gray with arguments. The ****ty part for the law abiding citizens is there's nothing to do about an illegal search that bears no fruit. If an illegal search is done in the forrest and nothing turns up, it does not make a sound. Therefore, the incentive is to be more on the wrong side of the line and make arguments later if something is found.

I'd also like to mention that the biggest right that the public has is the right to remain silent. That right is always there. You do not need to EVER speak with a cop anywhere at any time. (That said, you may, and probably do depending on the situation, need to comply with their instructions.) Most people think that the right only starts when arrested, but that is simply where they need to inform you of your rights. If at any time during the stop you're done talking, it's simply "Officer, I'm remaining silent from here on out." Once you say those magic words, U.S. case law is very specific about statements that can be admitted against you and it's almost always in your favor.

 

Mike is right in all respects. No cop will EVER walk up to your car to help you. Just say yes sir, no sir, and I was doing 55mph or whatever the speed limit might be. Cops are your enemy--believe it!!!

 

I wouldn't say they're the enemy...

I'd say that they do have a tuff job.

I'd also say that some of them have a skewed perception of the public.

NOT ALL, but some assume you're guilty of something when they stop you.

There is some real solid advice from several people in this thread... It pretty much covers what you should do if pulled over and asked if your car can be searched...

Now, I'm going to take Law Jolla's very sound advice and exercise my rights to remain silent on this subject...

Mike

 

You got a ticket? By your statements I guess that doesn't make you a "good person."

 

http://www.hulu.com/watch/21832/the-...-arrests-homer

Skip to 1:10

 

Please, the ReHnquist Court was much more rational than either the Warren or Burger Courts. You are obviously a good attorney who knows his stuff, but to speak as though there is a consensus on the issue when in reality you are simply bashing a Court with whom you take ideological issue is disingenuous.

 

great story. I would have loved to see the look on his face
oh and good law info, thanks.

 

Chad, We're all living in the real world where crazy things happen. I think we're all glad you had wonderful experiences with cops, but many here haven't had your good fortune. Perhaps this is why your comments here, i.e., they can search my car cause I have nothing to hide, and several other silly comments on other threads along the same subject lines are viewed by some of us as ridiculous. I've learned something from your experience from cops, are you learning anything from ours?

So you have no fear because you think there is no reason for cops to do something they shouldn't. Do you read a newspaper? Do you believe people on this thread (and others) are making these stories up?