800 600 works to... gt2 with power needs a lil softer rear end to put power down! what do i know though ...lol

 

... i just drove it...
lil ole M3 went sub 2 the other day

 

Wow, hard core suspension Dude, I'm impressed!

 

Great info in this thread.

 

all i can say is my ole car was set up well ... wasnt it peter???

 

Brilliant !!!! Thanks for the virtual Encyclopedia of information you just posted.

I am assuming that these settings are your track settings? Are you/have you used the Hoosier DOT R6's?

My Canister pressures are right where you recommend...

My front toe is slightly toed out, whereas yours is toed in.. What is the thinking behind the toe in in front? The toe-in in the rear is to help stability under braking, because the rears will spread under braking, therefore the toe in helps bring the wheels straight, compensating. I was led to believe that toeing the fronts OUT helped turn in and front end agility?

I will have the caster set to your specs, as mine is at 8.2 just now.

My sway bars are in the correct position that you recommend.

The rest, I will investigate and make sure what my corresponding settings are.

Once I have tracked my car, I will have a better idea of where I want to go on the spring rates.

Again, thanks for your efforts here, I'm sure it will help tremendously. As it stands, I am incredibly happy with the immense improvement I already feel vs. the stock setup. I have a few months of tweaking and driving ahead of me... That's half the fun of this stuff though..

Maybe one of the mods could make this a GT2 specific sticky, as I'm sure this is something that would help ALL GT2 owners to some degree or another.

 

All I know is that when I had toe out, the car felt like it was taking off for liftoff over 100, the most scary/instability i've ever felt.. Brings a new meaning to front end nervousness and twitchyness... While it may have been better for the track (which it's suppose to be, since your wheels will be positioned for better turn in) I just never got comfortable with it and was wayyyy faster with that setup I sent you. Only things I adjusted were camber (2.8/2.6 F/R) and maybe one more click to the front swaybar towards full stiff.

I ran Toyo R888's and Hoosier R6's with this setup, the R6's with 3-4 heat cycles on them proved to be 6-8 seconds faster then my under 50% R888's, I guess not apples to apples but it was me slipping and sliding all around Monticello/VIR with my buddy stu filming me from behind, I had to eventually let him go. Slapped my R6's on? I was OUT on every single car that I tried to keep up with but had to let go, 2 997 GT2's with R6's, GT3's and was playing tango with a cool guy in a GT3 cup 996 variant.. This was at VIR, also clocked a 2:04 which was my fastest time there ever, and it wasn't a full clean lap!

Glad I can help you out, and for anyone who want's a nice solid setup to work with!

Martin

 

The car is having the toe changed to your settings... going toe-in instead of toe out.

What have you done to allow you to reach more than -2 degrees of camber? Stock I can only get to -2.0 front and rear.. more than that, I guess I'll need camber plates?

Definitely looking forward to the next Laguna and Sears/Infineon track days.. I think this Car will really excel at Laguna.. the gearing should be near perfect and the surface is damn nice now..

I'll post updates as I tweak the car more. I will be changing ONE thing at a time from now on, keeping track of what every single change does to the car.

Thanks again.. One of the most useful and informative posts ever on a Forum in my opinion.

 

You can get camber plates OR just rotate the struts/add shims to gain more negative camber.. Thing is, the more negative camber you add without plates, I believe you sacrifice caster, soooo I would probably just go with the camber plates!

Very smart to keep logs of all changes, and not to do too many modifications or tweaks at the same time, you won't get accurate feedback!

Again glad I can help, let me know how of goes, it's the least I can do after wasting over 2 years of money/time and setups/different shops and components! I know how it goes unfortunately... Good luck 

 

So did you wind up making any changes? Did you compare it to your setup, how different was it??

 

Yes, I made a few changes...

Based on your settings, plus a bit of trial and error, we did the following:

Went to 600 lb front, 800lb rear Eibach Pro springs.

Dialed out the toe-out and went to your settings for toe-in.

I played with the settings for the rear, in terms of damping and settled on 5 clicks out from full hard for both low speed compression and rebound damping.. went with 8 clicks out from full hard on high speed compression.

At the front, getting the damping characteristics to match the rear took a few tries, but we went with 6 clicks out from full hard for compression, 5 clicks out from full hard on rebound and 8 clicks out from full hard on high speed compression.

After shimming and rotating, we got to -2.2 front and -2.4 rear negative camber.

I left the ride height as it was. Corner balanced again.

The Car is truly transformed. Of all the modifications I have made to all my Cars and Motorcycles over the years, I think that this JRZ setup with your settings for most of the geometry/camber/caster etc has been the most amazing... I got to drive the Car really hard down some local back roads that also have some long straights on them last night... FABULOUS!!! it now soaks up all the road imperfections on really terrible surfaces.. it stays planted, stable and I don't feel as if my kidneys are taking a beating any more..

It rained on my way out to Pt. Reyes (my destination last night), so I also got to see how the car was in the wet.. On PS2's the thing is great.. I pushed it pretty hard on a few safe corners and got the front and rear to slide (on purpose) and also got it to 4 wheel drift on a few as well.. Controllable, predictable, telegraphs what the tires/wheels are doing VERY well, easy to catch when it does get loose at either end.

On a couple of the longer straights, I had experienced the car leaving the ground when it hit a couple of specific bumps when it was on the stock suspension at 90 mph...SCARY STUFF... With this setup, I barely noticed that the bumps were there at 120+ mph.

Next step is the track.. Sears/Infineon is always a good test, because almost every car I have driven there exhibits understeer through turn 4.. If you dial out the understeer there, you get pretty scary oversteer in turn 10 (and that's one corner you DEFINITELY don't want oversteer on ).. Getting the balance right for turn 2, 4, the esses and turn 10 is the crucial part of setup. Laguna is different.. I always concentrate on getting the car neutral through turn 4 so I carry as much speed as possible through to turn 5 and get a good run all the way up through 6 and up the hill to the corkscrew... Turn 9 is also important, as you don't want oversteer through there. Turn 3? no-one thinks they ever quite get turn 3 right.. it's just a corner that you can push and push then suddenly you've crashed and you don't quite know why.. it looks flat, but it FEELS like it is negatively cambered..

So.. many, many thanks for going to the trouble to post your setup, it has helped immensely and now I feel real confidence in the car in all aspects of how it behaves and handles.

 

 

Sweet Picture!!!

 

I have done my suspension just about the same way except I used Motons. Would you please describe the ride difference when you went to the 600/800 springs? My current springs are 450/700, and I always wonder if I should go stiffer. I drive mostly track now, not much street at all.

 

What kind of tires do you run?

If they are R-comps (R888, MPSC, NT-01) to Semi-Slick (R6, V710, A6) or stickier, then you will need a stiffer spring to control the pitch and yaw of such a heavy car. Between 500-700 front and 700-900 should be the workable range without any big wings on the car. Maybe even a little heavier depending on how aggressive you are and how smooth the tracks you attend are.

Running a stiffer sway bar allows a softer spring as well so keep that in mind.

Realistically, from the difference you have and what he has, you can use your compression range to make them feel pretty much the same. You are eliminating the bottom range of softness for the lighter spring, but you can make the mid range easily through softening the damper.

The weight of these cars + sticky tires makes a laughing stock of 400lb/700lb springs. Your dampers are doing ALL the work.