+1 .... I see a lot of exhaust systems with no actual back to back dyno sheets. I made a X design myself from 3" Burns and lost hp coming from a conventional 2.75" seperated bank exhaust. The sound of the X design made up for it though. The joining of banks really makes a nice sound compared to the seperated design but IMO is not ideal for max power. I wondered why UMW stopped making the X design

 

I have Marski's on my car and I love it
Robert

 

Interesting Kevin -I always wondered what good a "criss cross" x-pipe (as opposed to the slightly merged 90s) did in a region of exhaust flow where pulse tuning is out the door. I understand you may reduce some drone with either setup but blasting each bank of post turbine exhaust against each other baffles me.

 

When it comes to quality and design Europipe is in a class by itself. Yes, it is expensive, however you get what you pay for.



Europipe will be going on Killer Angel. She will produce about 1100 hp @ 1 bar and close to 1800 hp at 2.5 bar. I would not consider any other exhaust.

 

I have been an owner of my 996TT since 2002 when I took delivery new. I have owned six different 996TT exhausts and have driven several other 996TT exhausts in my years of ownership, so I have some experience of how various systems sound and perform. I also have a set of criteria that I would like my exhaust to meet and none of the previous exhausts I have owned or driven with have met my criteria. They were either too loud or had too much drone - that is until I designed our X-cellerator cross-flow 2.5 quiet, which met my criteria perfectly. One can argue about a few dyno HP, but in the end, a small HP variance on a dyno is meaningless on a 600-700 Hp car, yet the driving experience, every time you fire up your car is priceless. That is why I have decided to use our 2.5 quiet system, as opposed to our 3" model. No drone, absolutely fantastic sound that you can not get from a conventional design, V-flange options for the track which include cat bypass pipes and muffler bypass pipes and hi-flow 100 cell cats. When in track configuation - the 2.5 becomes a full 3" system. Our 2.5 cross-flow exhaust system offers everything the majority of 996TT and 997TT owners could want in one package. Not to mention, it is a fraction of the price of some other systems like the Euro-pipe that offer zero track options and in my opinion do not sound as good, either. Our full 3" X-cellerator is for the owner that doesn't mind a little more noise and some drone, but it's a full 3" system, so that is to be expected. It also exhibits a fantastic GT3-like wail at WOT and sounds awesome, making it a great choice for a weekend special event car or a daily driver, if you like it loud and aggressive. The 3.0 cross-flow sound is fantastic, as well!

Exhaust choice is all about options. On my own car, I went from our 200 cell cat, 70mm conventional design system that made a 42 AWHP increase over stock - thats 50 HP! What I experienced when I swapped to the SpeedTech cross-flow was quicker turbo spool due to the 100 cell cats, more immediate throttle response, crisper feel at all RPM's, awesome sound (which is a huge factor in exhaust choice) and a lot more fun driving! That said, Kevins post comes off as technical, but at the end of the day, exhaust choice is a lot more than specifcations and theoretical scenarios. It's about real world performance and enjoyment of the car. Believe me, anyone that purchases a cross-flow design will not be sorry. IMO, they are the best design on the market for our cars. You may get a few more HP with some other design and you may not, but you know what - whether you do get a few more HP or you don't get a few more HP, the only place you will feel it is in your ears and you probably won't like the feel as much as a cross-flow. Since installing the SpeedTech X-cellerator cross-flow, I get so many compliments on my cars sound on rallys - everyone wants to know what kind of exhaust I have...and they rave about it!

Additionally, building your own exhaust as Kevin suggests is a lot more design, trial and error, etc. than you would imagine (as Mark has pointed out - it's not as easy as it may appear to be) and also costs money. Kevin has an agenda - he is a Euro-pipe distributor and pushes them all he can, while attempting to discredit every other exhaust on the market claiming the euro-pipe is the end all solution. I have sold a few systems to Euro-pipe owners and have had other dissatisfied EP owners offer to trade in their systems for a SpeedTech cross-flow, so the high 5K+ price tag does not guarantee happiness. IMHO, it's all about choices and the cross-flow design is the best choice for most 996TT owners right now, especially since we offer extremely good pricing for such a versatile, great performing, great sounding system.

 

You are right and wrong, Nick. You are correct that above 600 whp the 70 mm EP will become the restriction point. But that is only if you have GT 30 or larger turbos and a full blow through intake system.

For example on my car Akram and I have estimated that my EP loud is probably costing me about .2 seconds on my 60-130, or about a car length (when compared to marks full 3 inch exhaust). Slower spool up and some top end. I believe on Robs car the difference was 5- hp (but that is on a 1K plus hp set up) when he switched over to marks full 3 inch set up.

However one area where the EP is absolutely unmatched is sound. I have spent time listening to Robs car and to Walnuts Switzer set up. Don't get me wrong, both sound wonderful. However the EP is really on another level in terms of sound it really is that good.


I have been torn over whether or not I want to loose that sweet sweet symphony for the extra car length.

 

Rob, what was the difference again between your EP and marks exhaust? That is the sort of direct comparison people want to see. It was 50 something, yes?

 

Dr_jitsu,

The above Europipe pic is a lot bigger than 70 mm.

I agree with your opinion, however on the other hand ...... liking a certain sound is subjective. John does have a point, most people could not feel the small gains or losses in most of the systems. Which brings us to the last point, price is a significant factor to many people and there is nothing wrong with that so long as they understand what they are paying for and getting.

 

It seems all the exhaust manufacturers have valid dyno claims regarding HP and torque increases. However it you're just going to flash the ECU with an exhaust (w/o going into exotic intakes, intercoolers, turbos, and changing engine internals) I think the HP gain (although measurable on a dyno) are not significant on the street. Buy what sounds best to you and what is within your budget. A car with a $2k exhaust and $3k ECU flash with beat a car with just a $5K exhaust anytime.

 

I particularly don't care alot about sound as long as it sounds decent I care about power,I'm running stright full 3 inch with little burns race mufflers no cats ,she runs strong! And sounds possesed .

 

Having four systems being taken off and sold from my car, and now with a 5th system sitting in the box and waiting for my car to come back, I'm extremly sensative to exhaust comments and comparisons. I'll explain further.

Years ago, in another career (I've done a lot of things in my 43 years) I was a professional sound and video engineer (thank you uncle sam), and had a recording studio and rock band gig on the side. My ears, although still functioning very well, are very sensative to sound. So much so that I'll tear a car completely appart to find that one minor squeek that no one else notices. Race cars don't bother me. They're on the track and supposed to be stupid loud with stupid buzzing. Street cars? Love the rumble outside the car, but I hate buzz, drone and that roaring internal to the cabin that consumes you... F'that. This is a Porsche and it should allow you to have both performance, great sound, and interior comfort. My C5 Corvette had the best of both, with large diameter headers, highflow cats, an X pipe, and the stock Z06 Ti mufflers. Loud outside the car, but you didn't lose interior quality, AND it made great power on a modded motor. Surely I can get this out of a Porsche, if I can get it out of a Chevy, right?

Maybe not...Kevin, I take up for you a lot, and send a lot of people your way, because I feel personally that you are one of the only people who gets it (Recently had another member here told by one of your competitors how the lag of a K24/18G was Better for roadcourse work!). You are also a pain in the a$$ sometimes, because you tell us what we don't want to hear. Chris A. (DeepBlue) and I were discussing this two nights ago over dinner! All that love given, I rode in Larry's car and his EP2 Quiet wasn't much quieter than Johns OLD speedtech 70mm system. Matter of fact, I'm not sure that it was ANY quieter, but did lose some small bit of drone.

I'm under no illusion. I'm the exception to the rule of "MAN DOESN'T THIS THING SOUND GREAT"..."WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU"... Well after chatting with John some more (and John I think you read way to much into what Kevin typed as I didn't see your system specifically mentioned) I took the plunge and took John up on his offer to sell me his 2.5inch Excellerator system. If it is "sporty" sounding without the drone and headache then I'll be happy. I'm not looking for Peak HP. I'm of the opinion that unless you're making more than 700BHP, you probably don't need a 3inch system. If you've upgraded injectors, fuel pump, and other "stuff", maybe you do.

Opinions, pretty sure we're all allowed to have them... That said, I want truth. I want to KNOW what's what. So when Kevin takes the time to come over and shed some intelligent light on some of these discussions, I applaud it. Just like when Mark takes the time to post a technical discussion. The more info we have, the better choices we can ALL make, as consumers.

Mike

 

80shilling, you are in San Fran, I'd recommend you track down local members here that have changed exhausts and hear them for yourself.

I am on my second change of exhaust and waited patiently (Paulie) to properly hear one of the exhausts I was considering changing too and am glad I didn't just go out and buy another one based off of things I read on here. (Not knocking the forum or its members too much, it is a great wealth of information, but we all have differing tastes, budgets, aspirations, you can't beat personal evaluation of the equipment you are considering changing to). That said you can see what I have now in my signature and for me, it works, I am very happy with it. I wish I had had the opportunity to personally test/hear a 2.5 x-flow speedtech, but at that time there weren't any here in this area, I like its v-flange modular approach - great for DD+track folk.

 

Kevin,

Perhaps I over-reacted, but I sensed a knock to what I believe to be a fantastic option for most Porsche 996TT and 997TT owners and wanted to share my experience with our cross-flow system. Anyhow - thanks for your thoughts and enjoy the holiday and have a happy new year!

 

John -

Do you have any dyno runs you can post from your car ? K24/18g X 2.5 ?

 

i can undrestand if you have bad fuel or something and the car pulls timing/or if it overboosts, what i dont understand is how a car can pull timing from an exhuast , where talking about exhuast gasses here ,back pressure ...