TT's are the "supercar buy" of the century but now the 996 GT3 prices are coming
way down too. Sharkey's 3.9 kit into a used GT3 that already has some suspension
mods is going to set you back around $80K or so. I still have not seen a 996TT Track car that is faster than a Cup Car, not even close. Look at the Cup Car times at various tracks around the States and show me one 996TT street/track car that is faster than their times ?? I have seen Cups and Modded Turbos run in the same weekend at Brainerd, Road America, VIR, etc. If you want to learn how to drive, you buy a GT3. The 996TT makes it too easy (with its aids and gobs of torque) to overcome your driving deficencies.

What are Mike Kelly and Tom Kerr track times in their cars?
Are their faster 996TT's at the tracks than theses guys ?

MK

 

I look at the times, and there is at least one 996 TT as fast as the Cup Cars, however which cups are you talking about, PCA? Patron? etc. And you'd need a comparable driver with comparable support to really show it, I don't know of any TT's with that level of support.

I'd put money on Al Norton's car on the majority of ALMS track schedule to at least qualify in the top 3 of the Patron cars with a similar driver to them. His car is still about 3300 lbs too.

From my personal experience I'm not convinced enough about the TT in RWD to make such a bold statement about Tom's car, but the potential is there. As I've mentioned before, Al is only 2 seconds shy of second place qualifying for the Patron Cup at Road Atlanta, he drives with PSM on and admittedly is not very aggressive everywhere on the track. Put Seth Thomas (Bimmerworld) in his car and watch it beat all the Cup Times.

 

Woodster, Trust me, the track times of guys like 930Man and others are closer to that... All that said, I fully expect to be in the low 2:0Xs this year and if possible I will compete at the UTCC. Peter's car, which was Matt's (930Man) ran 1:59s at VIR.

Bottom line is the 996TT will run with cup cars, in the right hands... Matt's GT2 did, and he owned both. A well sorted 996TT will do the same.

I know of a VERY well sorted 2005GT3 with ALL the best suspension and safety mods, and that car has turned 2:03s at VIR. That car is for sale right now for $65K. Add the price qouted above for Sharkey's kit, and you're getting the idea...

Here's the "other" reality... Cupcar this, cupcar that... it's a RACECAR. Peter's car (Matt's former car) ran 1:59s with AC, leather interior, and all the normal "fare"... And could be driven in rushhour traffic anywhere in this country... Do that in a cupcar!

Mike

 

There is no point even having such a discussion.... there are thousands of circuits worldwide, some suited to Turbo and some not and driving experience has a big part to play in this.

 

And has 930man not recently picked up a GT3?

 

You guys are scaring me, I'm going to have to take VIR seriously when I get back up there, and it WILL be this year. When does the Zone 2 PCA reg. open?



Yes, but there will not be that big of a delta in performance when cars are even on tracks. A car that can run competitively on one track will not all of a sudden be 5 seconds behind on another (or even 3 for that matter). Maybe 1.5-2 tops for a track that totally suits the lighter weight more nimble car and for what we are talking about, that is still pretty close. (Lemans is an exception)

Besides, the 997 Cup is pretty fast when you combine exit speed, quick shifts, less drive train loss and crazy braking potential.

 

This is Matt we're talking about... He owned the Becker cupcar, and another cupcar, before his 996GT2 and his 997GT2... He also owns a BMW M3 racecar... Matt changes cars more frequently than some of these guys change their underwear!

Mike

 

Exactamundo.. My opinion is bittersweet upon this topic.. It really depends on ones preference and what they can handle.. My gt2 is on edge every second around the track, but that is the way I drive and my natural instinct... GT3 is a very quick car on the track, can make you a better driver initially when compared to a turbo, but will only take you so far once you reach the cars true potential, and lastly then your DRIVING potential trying to reach new heights in the cars, which leads to over driving the cars platform.. That's where modifying comes into play IMO

I trumped Rudtner's GT3 cup at Thunderbolt this past summer, I was turning sick fast times in my GT2, i'm talking 6-8+ seconds faster then comparable GT3's there the same day, and I have in car footage to prove it lol 1:26-1:27 then at 12 heat cycles my tires just corded... VIR gotta 2:04, 2:05 in traffic.. It can be done in a full street weight car (turbo).. No it wont feel like a GT3 cup or racecar, but they are highly capable, and again, IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO PREFERENCE.

These cars have such potential (which rarely few will ever get near/too, Matt and the guy's mentioned above are just incredible... Mikelly is humble with himself but also a very competent/fast driver, Dez as well), limiting factors are drivers/tires and of course traffic on the course, but most of all DRIVER... At the end of the day though it's just to be safe and HAVE FUN!

All I know is it's such a challenge becoming faster and a better driver in any car, i'm longing for a 2 flat at VIR, i'm going to make it happen in March

 

Guys... there can be a huge difference between a Cup Car and a GT3/GT3RS

 

I think the answer is that most of us are primarily street drivers. A GT3 just doesn't have that satisfying torque and freeway prowess for everyday use. The more hardcore you get, the more you are likely to veer towards the GT3.

For me, given every other year DE events the TT is just what the doctor ordered.

 

Yea, from what I can find out on the NEW 2010 Cupcar, we're talking 2600# and 450HP... Steve, the "other" project car I'm 95% done building is gonna have a "slightly" better power to weight of 2200# and 530BHP (closer to 450WHP).

Mike

 

A fully set up Cup Car with pro driver at Spa (Sean Edwards, Konrad Racing) will run roughly 2:30 a stock GT3RS in an experienced driver will run roughly 2:50.... you could probably knock off at best 5 seconds for pro driver (roughly)... my best is a 2:45 and trust me that was quick and I ain't no pro but I know Spa pretty well though... at the most a pro could get in my car and knock off maybe 5 seconds (roughly)... which would still be 10 seconds behind a Cup... even Cup Cars can be very different.

 

I didn't see this Turbo leave this Cup for dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOvCaPN-8P8

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcYab6nX4zA

 

Way too many variables in these videos , Gary's RUF is like 37-800 lbs without drivers and despite it's power, still very very fast.. Power doesn't make up for everything, it can hinder performance around a track rather then make up for it if you don't know how to use it which is obvious...

Bottom line is, once again, a turbo can be made just as fast with the correct driver/mods as a cup, and have it be full street weight.. Now you wont get the race car or pure track car feel like a cup, but it is a good option for those who like to drive it on the street and do other things other then strict track work..