The BEST brake bleeding solution
 

Over the years, I've tried just about everything for brake bleeding, including: someone in the car pumping the pedal, speed bleeder check valves, Motive pressurized bleeder, vacuum pump, ... You name it, I've tried it.

My indie recommended that I try a pressure system, and he loaned me his to give it a try. I have to say that it feels almost like cheating - it's so easy. It's a pressure tight cap that screws onto the brake fluid reservoir, that you then hook up to an air compressor. Set the regulator for 20 psi. (See photo 1.) Then just go wheel-to-wheel and crack open the bleed screws 1/2 turn and collect as much fluid as you like. (See photo 2.) Retighten the bleeder and you're done. I did the two rears first, then released the pressure and refilled the reservoir before doing the fronts. I think that I'll make a connector line so that I can take the air pressure off a tire so I can do it at the track.

It's made by Power Probe, and the one that fits our cars is BA05 (that's a zero). It's also not very expensive. I'm not posting the vendor or the price here to avoid any conflicts with the board policy.

Jon

Jon,

Looks good.. I've used the same type of brake bleeder adapter on my previous 2 cars. It does work well especially when you don't have an extra leg to pump the brakes while bleeding the calipers! haha..

How do you keep the reservoir filled with new brake fluid once you have the pressure line on the reservoir?

You don't. Read what Jon posted. He had to release the pressure and refill the master after doing two rear calipers. You'll have to keep an eye on the master cylinder. I use my motiv this way and never use it to fill the master with fluid.

Jon's unit is a cheaper solution...and more portible.

NH

I've read that anything over 12-15psi can bugger your MC and seals. Any thoughts on this?

My indie suggested 20 psi. 10 would do just as well. It might bleed a little bit slower.

You do have to keep an eye on the reservoir. If you let the fluid level drop below the bottom, you are filling the lines with air. I've found that if I fill my little catch bottle a little over 1/2 way at each wheel I can fill it twice without any danger of draining the reservoir.

Before starting at the wheels, I use a vacuum tool to suck out the fluid from the reservoir and refill with fresh.

Jon

According to the repair manual you can pressurized up to 2.0 bars which is over 29 pounds.... See second pics....

I'd think that the possibility of running the fluid level too low in the reservoir and getting air in the system would outweigh the more difficult solution of using a Motive bleeder. The reason I say "more difficult" is due to having to clean the Motive bleeder after use (at least I clean mine up). However, if you already have a Motive bleeder, you can simply use the existing reservoir bleeder cap. Disconnect the hose at the brass coupler, and add the appropriate coupler to your compressor line to connect to the reservoir cap. Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the need to buy another reservoir cap if you already have a Motive bleeder.

Another useful use for those with Motive bleeders is using it as a pump to check your turbo waste gate adjustment. You can easily take the bleeder cap off and rig up a piece of vacuum line to connect to the pressure fitting on your waste gates (on the stock turbos anyway). The gauge on the Motive bleeder is not super precise, but mine is pretty accurate and easily readable to within about half a psi. Hook it up and start pumping, paying close attention to when the waste gate cracks and the pressure gauge. I've found this to be a pretty simple solution to checking the adjustment without buying yet another limited purpose tool.

Can't beat the service manual for the straight poop. Thanks.

Jon - great idea. I'd always used the Motive as the pressure source but this is even simpler.

good idea,but dont forget to drain the water from the air compressor before the job

The Motive bleeder has the advantage that it supplies fluid directly to the reservoir, keeping it full (as noted in earlier post). The down side is that there is a lot of cleanup. To each his own.

Jon

Considering I am due for brake flush I think I'll try this. Thanks for the post!

Not sure I understand how this is better than the Motive that insures you won't run out of fluid. It's exactly the same as the air compressor method, including the cap which is curiously similar to the one that's supplied with the Motive pressure tank, without having the problem of running the system dry and no need to refill the system. As for the clean up , if you follow the Motive directions, I found there to be no cleanup issues to deal with.

in order to have a correct bleeding,PIWIS is needed...It is written in service manual...It opens a bleed valve from psm unit and let it bleed from trapped air...(through front left or right caliper,cant recall...)

I'm planning on a flush and fluid change next week, and came to discover the Durametric Version 6 should be able to open the ABS/PSM to allow you to flush it completely...just fyi.

I'll use a motive pressure source to do it. Did the M5 this weekend and it was duck soup. :)

A

First, great post, thank you for sharing!

Question, you said "...I think that I'll make a connector line so that I can take the air pressure off a tire so I can do it at the track."

How would you "control/regulate" the air pressure coming off a tire, as most tires are inflated well over 20psi (37-44psi avg)? Are you first releasing extra air pressure in tire down to 20psi and checking with gauge?:confused:

I don't own a compressor and looking for alt means (short of buying a Motive) to provide 20psi of air pressure to reservoir (per you procedure).

Thoughts?

Good point. You could drop the tire pressure for the bleed, and then run it back up afterwards, or you could add a pressure regulator between the tire and reservoir. That is probably the best solution. I have a pressure regulator on the compressor in my garage, and that is what I do there. I haven't actually made this contraption, though.

Jon

I had to replace my Motive bleeder kit recently, and ordered the Black Label kit.

I wanted to bring this thread back just to let people know, the Motive Black Label kit comes with a metal cap and gasket similar to PowerProbe, with tubing that can be adapted for a air compressor. Amazon carries it for a price lower than the Motive online store itself. Buying the Black Label kit allows you to either use the reservoir and pump, or plug it into an air compressor.

Just an FYI.

bob

That is old school. Porsche techs have been using that same contraption for years. :cool:

Another thought on the pressure stated as safe. Are they referring to 'gauge' or 'absolute'?

There is a company that makes a universal pressure bleeder (comes with multiple reservoir caps). The air pressure hose has an end that clamps on to the tire valve stem to to supply pressure. The draw back is you need to reduce the tire pressure down ot 10 or 20 psi. I think the manufacturer is an english company. Google "EZbleed".

On a side note: it has been my experience that on other German cars and some of my 1980s vintage Porches, you have to pinch the overflow tube on the brake reservoir when using a pressure bleeder. Otherwise you end up with your new brake fluid on the garage floor.

I know that MKelly recommended to use the Motive dry so as not to contaminate the fuild. What makes this any different than using the Motive? It is the 30 pumps it takes to get it up to pressure? If anything, i could use the slight workout!!

+1 for this, gives a really good feel in pedal after bleeding.

Next week I will go to make the oil service at the dealer and I want to change the brake fluid too because it has 2 years, I ask them if they are useing the piwis when changing the fluid and they said that no and only one liter of brake fluid is needed.

Are they stupid or not, this is my question?!

Thanks?

When I changed mine, I only needed 1 lite to fully flush it minus the abs. From what I understand, you need the porsche computer to activate the abs to flush that as well. I don't know how much, if any, effect it will have not flushing it, and I also don't know how much is in there. I do think I remember reading that the new durametric has the ability to activate the abs pump, thought could have been dreaming :)

I have been using the Black Label for years and have never had any problems with any car that had ABS. The Motive is going to do just as good a job as the contraption listed in this thread. I have an air compressor and do not see any advantage to using this contraption over the Motive. In fact, as mentioned in an earlier post, the Motive has the advantage of keeping the reservoir filled up during the process.

If your brakes have not been bled in a long time, 2 years plus, then I would suggest using a liter the first time. After two or three days of driving, bleed it a gain with another liter. You will be surprised at what comes out the second time that you did not see the first time. Plus, this will eliminate the fluid that may get trapped in the system since the ABS pump is not actuated via the OEM computer at the dealership.

Just ordered my Motive Black Label, been thinking about it for a while, and now that I have a few sets of brakes to do, its time! I also think the Motive product is the better option as you do not need an external air pressure source, which is an advantage not only for ease or use, but as others have pointed out, there IS condensation in most air compressor systems, unless you have a water filter, which most do not.

You might want to think about eventually purchasing another one in the future. I have two black labels, one for the brake fluid and one for the clutch. I did not want to deal with cleaning out the bottle each time I switch between brake fluid and Pentosin.

Not trying to sound stupid but after searching amazon for the motive black label and finding it's hand pump operated would this still be a better idea than using jons original idea of a compressor? How accurate would the hand pump be in terms of not exceeding the porsche max psi recommendation to avoid damage to the system?

You can easily bleed the brakes between 15-20 psi - it was mentioned earlier that the max was 29 psi in the FSM. The Motive bleeder has a gauge on it and it is easily controlled through your hand pumps. An air compressor requires the use of a regulator, whereas the motive uses your hand pump motions while watching the gauge as the regulator.

So they must use the piwis to change the fluid or not?

Alex. I ask that question to Loren on Renntech before and he told me it is necessary only if you have replaced the master cylinder etc see link:http://www.renntech.org/forums/index..._1#entry186837

So I did not use it, replace the fluid using a motive bleeder, and everything works perfectly...

Hi All,

I stumbling across this thread while doing some market research -

Just wanted to address a few issues related to the thread when it comes to the Motive Bleeder -

I did see mention on a few replies about just using compressed air either directly from a compressor or using a product called Eezi Bleed which uses compressed air from your tires.

In both cases unless you have an air dryer in line you are taking air which is very high in moisture content due to it coming from a compressor that first compresses it to well over 100psi and then steps it down to what ever it is regulated to. So you are putting moisture and in most cases particulate matter into your nice new fresh brake fluid. The inside of tires and compressors can be fairly wet filthy places.

I don't know the rules of the forum for posting coupons and the such but if anyone wants a coupon for use by the forum please contact me off line.

thanks

Marco
support@motiveproducts.com

Hmmm, good timing with this revival...

How do these power bleeders NOT overfill the master cylinder? What I mean is, I'm assuming that when you crack a bleeder screw, it is pushing fluid in, right? When you are done making your way from the back to the front, bleeding and then go to the master to disconnect, is it already full or does it maintain the level you started with? No mess after?

is that gauge or absolute though? :confused:

Assuming your master cylinder is viewable when you're bleeding the front left caliper and it's translucent - you can do the following -

Tilt the bleeder tank away from the pick up tube (same side of the tank as the output hose) so that there is no fluid being pushed - just air pressure - continue bleeding the front left caliper as you are watching the fluid level in the m/c reservoir decrease to the max fill line, close the bleed screw on the caliper. Depressurize the bleeder tank.

Perfect fill.

Otherwise the bleeder will fill the reservoir to the top of the neck. When you depressurize the tank typically there is a small vacuum created as the pressure drops and a small amount of fluid will be sucked back into the tank, but not that much - then you need to use something to extract the excess fluid.

If you have any other questions please send them to support@motiveproducts.com. I wish I had time to surf the forums - but when you're running a small biz you barely have time to eat. Also I had some guys ask about a 6speedonline coupon as I mentioned one yesterday. I forgot we're in the midst of a change over to a new web store so giving a coupon now would result in it not working in a few days. In Lieu of a coupon just shoot me an email with your order number and I'll deduct 15% - mention 6speedonline when you send me the order number.

cheers

Marco

It has to be gauge because almost 28 pounds on the reservoir, it is a lot....

Small secret but don't tell anyone, I never put any fluid in my motive. I simply use it to pressurized the system and do about 2 brakes , remove it, fill the reservoir of the car , reconnect it, and re pressurized it.... My motive looks like brand new. hilarious

That's what I wa gonna do!!!! That's why I asked!!!!