Hello all:


I am about to purchase a 996TT and just had the car done the PPI. I need your help on reading the DME report, which I have no clue what it means. Could anyone kindly help me explain this:

Number of Ignition Range 1
12350 927.9H

Number of Ignition Range 2
152 925.0H

Operating Hours Counter
1251.6


Please let me know waht is the number above mean on the car I am planning on purchase. Should I stay away from the car base on the DME report. Everything else are pass without any hickup.


Thank you very much in advance

 

if my memory serves me right, the vehicle had 12350 type 1 over-revs with the last one at 927.9 hours of operation... basically bouncing the car off the limiter.

the vehicle also had 152 type 2 over-revs with the last one at 925.0 hours. these are the ones you need to watch out for cause this means he downshifted past the rev limiter.

seeing how close they are to each other, i'm assuming it all happened at a track event. maybe not. the type 2's are the ones you really need to worry about. it might have been a quick blip or might have been something more which could have caused issues.

 

Type 2's are NOT necessarily caused by a missed downshift, if the car is STOCK then it likely was a missed down shift, if the car has been tuned it's very possible the rev limit has been raised (7200 for instance), thus making it possible to log a type 2 by hitting the extended rev limit.

Regardless, these numbers look good, it's been about 300+ hours since the stage 2 took place, if the car checks out, I wouldn't worry about it.

Just my opinion.

 

That looks just fine. Type 1 and type 2 overrevs are normal with a chipped car.

 

Not all type 2 over rev's are down shifts, as has already been pointed out. If the ECU has had an upgrade, thus shifting the rev limiter, one can "hit" an over rev without hitting the redline. Mine had more Type 2 overrevs than that, but Type 1's aren't really that concerning and Type 2's are going to happen...just how many. Chai, I think what you are seeing here is frankly pretty normal and while we would prefer not to have any Type 2's, they do exist. I personally would not be too worried about it, but that's your call.

 

I've read a few threads with cars with 0 Stage II's. Seems crazy to me, as these cars are meant to be driven, and it's almost impossible not to make a mistake as some point, especially taking into consideration that some of these cars are almost 10 years old. If the car checks out, I wouldn't get worked up over the DME data, unless it's way out of line.

Just my opinion.

 

Thank you very much for the response.

Robin: the car is not chipped. It is pure stock. Is it still OK?

Can you also PM me. I would like to get the car flash and heard all the good thing on this board about EPL. Pls PM me for the price.


Thanks

 

I was frankly shocked to see my car still has zero type IIs.... I've bounced off the rev limiter many times, but never missed a shift.

OP- I replied over on renntech. It has been 10k miles since this occurred, probably fine. The critical item, IMO, is how long ago the overrev happened.

A

 

I got my DME report the other day on an '03 I am purchasing, felt pretty good about the numbers:
T1: 7722;834hrs
T2: 224;770hrs
Tot: 835hrs
Everything else checked out great, will post picts after delivery.

 

My GT2 12/2001

T1 27145. 965 h
T2 135 935 h

Total. 970h

 

One & two's; you have nothing to worry about. The car was babied:

 

When I purchased my car used (CPO from a dealer) with 3k on the clock I also asked for the DME read out. There were type 2 overrevs and I expressed my concern to the dealer. The service manager took my out for a ride, did some hard, but not abusive upshifts, and did another DME read out. Guess what, a few more type 2 overrevs showed up. Porsche realized the 996 DME with only type 1 and 2 overrevs was not very useful. Hence the 997 DME has 6 types of overrevs logged. For an non flashed car the frequency of type 2 overrevs would be what to look at. If you refuse to buy a Turbo with any type 2 overrevs, I doubt you'll find one. Since I flashed my car, the rev limiter has been increase by 500rpm and type 2s show up all the time. I don't lose sleep over it.

 

That chart above is incorrect. It indicates a completely different RPM range for 996 tt / GT2 vehicles than the ECU actually records.

The 996tt/GT2 ECU records ONLY 2 RPM ranges:
Type 1 = 6750 RPM [that means the engine touched the Factory rev limiter- not above]
Type 2 = 6751 RPM and higher. Period.

There has been so much written about this that is incorrect. The ECU merely records this data point, not the reason why, not how much higher than that single 1 RPM above the limiter, nothing. It's a very simple indicator that has been speculated upon endlessly. These are very stout engines and even using 7300 wouldn't have a particular effect on durability. The chosen cut off point for the limiter is more relative to the power/torque curve of the turbo engines. You don't need to rev it to dealth to make a lot of power [tho a good GT2+ engine loves to rev] and are not effectively using the power running at top revs with a stock 996tt engine. It's a lot of fuss about very little of consequence. Seriously over rev it and you are much mofe likely to blow a clutch or the pulleys before you damage the engine internally.

 

So if no type 1s are recorded at 6749rpm, but only type one a 6750, and type 2 is at 6751, how is it possible to have thousands of type 1 over revs and very few type 2s. Your explanation does not make sense. People are not holding their car exactly at the redline of 6750. Tuned cars, like mine, I often go to 7000 coming out of corners and shift when I can open the wheel back up. I rack up type 1s, but almost no type 2s. Just based on how my car keeps track of over revs, you are incorrect. Have you done this on your own car? Where are you getting this from?

 

I've had a GT2 well over a decade. I posted a lengthy piece on exactly this subject back in 2007 in the hope it would once and for all clarify the matter.. Other GT2 drivers owners added their 2 bits at that time with the same results.

I don't know if you have a Durametric to record things. They work well and save details.

Please stop and think about this. It's a simple ECU. It only records based on a SINGLE data point 6750 RPM, period.

If you never rev your engine and don't touch 6750 RPM you will have no Type 1s, and can't have any Type 2s because you HAVE to have a Type 1 hit to make it into 6751- which it notes being past that 6750 RPM point.

If you have a stock ECU, a base 996tt with AWD, it's entirely possible to have Type 1s and no Type 2s [but unlikely as "it happens"].These use electronic limiters and if you have driven a stock 996tt it's not particularly fierce on the upper end and much less likely to hit many Type 2s. The X-50, GT2, Turbo S engines all make their power with additional boost and better breathing = harder upper revs and much more likely to break into Type 2s.

If you will think about it, it's impossible to record a Type 2 without having added a Type 1 in the process. How you are going past 6750 without recording a Type 2.. is .. very interesting. I note you have visited with Marski for a tune and have a lot of mods. Quite some while ago more than one tuner stated that they could erase Type 2s from an ECU. What you are saying indicates that your ECU has been hacked so that it's not recording a Type 2 even at 7K. Interesting.

I have a flash including a raised limiter to 7K but it records every time I hit 6751+.

Could you check with your tuner and advise if some magic was performed on your ECU?

BTW, if you care to research this you should be able to find my posting from 2007 regarding this, along with plenty of other postings- some very good, some not so good. For example, many - even well known techs - still insist that you can only exceed 6750 RPM- the Type 1 level- without causing harm to your engine! Some also insist you can only do this by a "hard" over rev via a bad down shift. PLEASE do get back with info on your ECU. It's clearly not stock.