E85 Tuning...
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,321
From: Fastlane USA
Rep Power: 246
Ethanol is highly regulated. Uncle Sam wants to collect their tax dollars. You have to account for just about every drop and have an alcohol permit to purchase it. Maybe you have one. If not, I would be very surprised if a plant just sells it to you without the ATF breathing down your neck.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,021
From: Italy
Rep Power: 86
Ethanol is highly regulated. Uncle Sam wants to collect their tax dollars. You have to account for just about every drop and have an alcohol permit to purchase it. Maybe you have one. If not, I would be very surprised if a plant just sells it to you without the ATF breathing down your neck.
Pretty much what happens here too. We also can't buy/use methanol. And race gas is illegal for street use, and there are no "bio-fuels" available....the country of supercars....6 dollars/gal for some crappy 93oct..
Anyway, I found that the stoichiometric ratio for E85 is 9.87, which is far from the usual 14.8 for 93oct gasoline. And the lower heating value is 29.19 Kj/Kg vs 43.5 Kj/Kg for the 93.
Last edited by emadelta86; Jan 17, 2011 at 04:02 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,015
From: MN
Rep Power: 277
The car is done. Flying out to drive it tomorrow. They hit 1584 rwhp and told them that was more than enough.
As far as buying ethanol straight from the plant. On our farms in Nebraska we run well motors on 100% ethanol that we get from the plant just down the road. I need to look into what they will want from me to buy in Minnesota since I don't own a farm up here.
As far as buying ethanol straight from the plant. On our farms in Nebraska we run well motors on 100% ethanol that we get from the plant just down the road. I need to look into what they will want from me to buy in Minnesota since I don't own a farm up here.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 129
From: fla
Rep Power: 24
I am looking to upgrade my car to run on E85 exclusively. Here in MI, it is a tossup as to whether there are more Starbucks or E85 pumps near my house
. The reasoning behind this move is as follows: My car at its most recent upgrade did 930AWHP on C16 around 26Psi and currently runs 700AWHP on 93. As much as I enjoy this car, I have very little time for it anymore with family and business commitments. I have spent much time and much more money building this motor only to run it at pump gas levels. I dont have the time, or patience to be swapping fuels and draining tanks. I want to run one fuel only and I think E85 is the ticket. I am not spending another nickel on this car as far as hardware upgrades are concerned,there is nothing left to upgrade, but I am interested in feedback from other members and even tuners on their experiences with E85. I would like to tune the car to the max with the current system I have and then control power via the EBC as opposed to a specific file. My fuel system is good for 1400 HP so it is not a concern. The injectors are 83 lb units and are the same that Joe and Bryant have in their vehicles which are are making 1100 hp or so. I would think this is enough injector even given the 20-30% increase in injector cycle needed for this fuel. The bottom line is I want to drive my car near the power levels it was built to achieve every time I turn the key, instead of rare occasions where I have the proper fuel. I really dont care about the ultimate power number, but if I would like to get 850-900 rwhp( RWD car now) every single day on fuel I can buy locally at the pump. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Kevin
. The reasoning behind this move is as follows: My car at its most recent upgrade did 930AWHP on C16 around 26Psi and currently runs 700AWHP on 93. As much as I enjoy this car, I have very little time for it anymore with family and business commitments. I have spent much time and much more money building this motor only to run it at pump gas levels. I dont have the time, or patience to be swapping fuels and draining tanks. I want to run one fuel only and I think E85 is the ticket. I am not spending another nickel on this car as far as hardware upgrades are concerned,there is nothing left to upgrade, but I am interested in feedback from other members and even tuners on their experiences with E85. I would like to tune the car to the max with the current system I have and then control power via the EBC as opposed to a specific file. My fuel system is good for 1400 HP so it is not a concern. The injectors are 83 lb units and are the same that Joe and Bryant have in their vehicles which are are making 1100 hp or so. I would think this is enough injector even given the 20-30% increase in injector cycle needed for this fuel. The bottom line is I want to drive my car near the power levels it was built to achieve every time I turn the key, instead of rare occasions where I have the proper fuel. I really dont care about the ultimate power number, but if I would like to get 850-900 rwhp( RWD car now) every single day on fuel I can buy locally at the pump. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! KevinPros:
-50-90 whp increase
-cheaper to fill up
-faster throttle response
-proven (your not a beta test!)
Cons:
-In cold inital start-up a bit harshe and when cruising at low RPMs can feel a bit "boggy" at times
-less mpg, I have gone through tank in a few hours driving hard!
-tough to gauge miles to empty (although this may be due to injector size throwing off trip computer)
-Spark plugs go bad fast (at least in my case one spark plug went bad after a few hundred miles)
-availability (doesnt appear to be issue with you either)
-fuel system mods (doesnt appear to be issue with you either)
Hope this helps!
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 374
From: New York
Rep Power: 52
My suggestion is to just run 93 Octane in the freezing winter months, this way you won't have to worry about cold start up. IMHO I believe you will need right around 2000cc injectors. Swap the injectors, pour some E85 in and run it on the dyno for a tune. As long as the temps aren't freezing, you should have no problem with E85 at startup. Even if you do want to use E85 year round, worse case scenario is it will take you an extra 2 minutes getting it started in your driveway. Best of luck!
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,453
From: CT
Rep Power: 439
Probably not. But if I do, and it's a big "if", it will be carless...I would like to make at least one event this year, but time will tell... new house, lots of stuff goin on...gotta get the bike ready, still working on the Turbo, blah blah blah...
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,015
From: MN
Rep Power: 277
Now back to the regular scheduled programming on E85.
(sorry for getting off topic)
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,726
From: Michigan
Rep Power: 416
The car is getting its tune this week if there are no hiccups. As far as tuning on the old setup, there wasnt enough injector to do much beyond idle and startup tuning. Then we decided the regular Switzer exhaust wasnt going to be sufficient for an "everyday" 900hp we are shooting for so they made a new 3 " exhaust. Always liked the look of the blow thru as well, so why not. Here we are, ready to go tune some corn oil. I imagine it will be a few days of tuning for startup, idle, part throttle and driveability before they hit the power numbers. We will see....
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,771
From: Seattle WA
Rep Power: 225
The car is getting its tune this week if there are no hiccups. As far as tuning on the old setup, there wasnt enough injector to do much beyond idle and startup tuning. Then we decided the regular Switzer exhaust wasnt going to be sufficient for an "everyday" 900hp we are shooting for so they made a new 3 " exhaust. Always liked the look of the blow thru as well, so why not. Here we are, ready to go tune some corn oil. I imagine it will be a few days of tuning for startup, idle,o part throttle and driveability before they hit the power numbers. We will see....
Jag
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,214
From: Colorado
Rep Power: 398
Kevin, good move on the E85. I was contemplating this last year, but it's not in the cards for now tuning wise.
when I found out how much more fueling I needed I just about **** a LWFW. The stoichiometric fuel ratio of gasoline is 10 and of E85 is 14.7, so to my understanding calculating the additional fuel needed is 1.47 times your current injector size maintaining the same DC,
...
as a cross reference, a local guy running E85 on another brand of car increased his inj from 42 lb'ers to 60 lb'ers and gained about 10% power across the board. Funny thing is that his increase in injector size matches the ratio above. A 10% power increase in your car would put you where you want to be so it seems. Good luck with this, can't wait to see the results.
when I found out how much more fueling I needed I just about **** a LWFW. The stoichiometric fuel ratio of gasoline is 10 and of E85 is 14.7, so to my understanding calculating the additional fuel needed is 1.47 times your current injector size maintaining the same DC,
...as a cross reference, a local guy running E85 on another brand of car increased his inj from 42 lb'ers to 60 lb'ers and gained about 10% power across the board. Funny thing is that his increase in injector size matches the ratio above. A 10% power increase in your car would put you where you want to be so it seems. Good luck with this, can't wait to see the results.
+1 on the E85 i'm a lone wolf running E85 out here in SoCal for about 6 months now & loving it especially when i go & fill er up at $2.50 a gall & can hang with all my methanol & race gas bro's
WTF 
