996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

Thinking About Getting a Used 996tt! Questions...

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Old Feb 11, 2011 | 09:35 AM
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Let me know if you have any questions about our packages, we have an 800hp 93 octane pump gas package available.
 
Old Feb 11, 2011 | 11:28 AM
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HI,A tune,exhaust and a 997 short shifter are going to be the best basic mods to start with that will make your car more enjoyable in any situation....Then you can fine tune and take the route of where you want to go next with the car and your driving goals...Just my opinion ....Good Luck
 
Old Feb 11, 2011 | 01:36 PM
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Power versus logevity/reliability relates to mechanical stress and heat stress.

A simple tune without supporting mods increases both. The exhaust helps reduce back pressure (if properly designed), increases flow and reduces heat stress. That's why you'll typically see "exhaust plus tune" together as a modification.

These engines are overdesigned so they can handle mechanical stress up to much higher levels than most other engines. Pretty amazing what the bottom ends and transmissions will withstand.
 
Old Feb 11, 2011 | 02:24 PM
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These motors can that a lot and are built right to be abused,if done right....to a limit.......lol....They are like a chevy small block>> keep getting a licking and continue ticking,plus there are so many parts out there and packages that have been tryed....Where you want to go, is know problem without stressing the drive train....Just my toughts......
 
Old Feb 11, 2011 | 02:55 PM
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There was a great article on the Switzer blog talking about how well these engines are built....I can't find it though..maybe Neil can help.
 
Old Feb 11, 2011 | 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by emadelta86
There was a great article on the Switzer blog talking about how well these engines are built....I can't find it though..maybe Neil can help.
http://switzer-spi.blogspot.com/2009...me-limits.html

Oct 30, 2009

Exploring The Limits




Porsche's 911 Turbo engines have been attracting high-performance tuners for decades, each one pushing the limits of engine performance further and further into the high-horsepower stratosphere. In the past, elite tuning firms like Ruf and TechArt were forced to replace dozens of internal engine components with bespoke, strengthened parts to handle the loads that 600+ horsepower put on them. All that changed, however, with the introduction of the 997 model Porsche Turbos in 2006.

“The 997 engine is really an incredible piece of engineering,” says Tym Switzer, who has spent the last few years exploring the limits of the 997 Turbo engine, inside and out. “When we set out to develop more horsepower with the 997 Porsche, we approached it the same way we approach any new platform: we analyze the factory components and the way they were designed to handles stress loads to establish an upper limit of what the engine is capable of. When I first looked into the 997 engine, I was very impressed with the quality of the entire assembly.”

What Switzer saw in the 997's engine was the result a no-holds-barred engineering program that culminated in Porsche's 964/GT1 racecar – a turbocharged monster that developed staggering horsepower with enough ruggedness and reliability built in to stand up to the punishing abuse of 24-hour endurance racing. As such, the 997 Turbo engine ships from the factory with many of the components necessary for making big horsepower already in place. “It's like they took a checklist from the page of every tuner out there that was rebuilding these engines, and decided to just put all that stuff in at the factory. Forged connecting rods? Check. Reinforced crankshaft? Check. Dry-sump oil system? Check. It's all there. In fact, just about every component in the 997 was over-built. Inside, it looks more like one of the cutting edge import race engines we were building in the 90's than it did any kind of street engine.”

With a high degree of confidence in the 997 Turbo engine's internals, Switzer moved to develop a line of bolt-on power-builders that would take advantage of the car's strengths, while addressing some of the limiting factors. “The turbos and intercoolers had to be upgraded to produce the the airflow and efficiencies we needed to reach our objectives. That was a given. Working with our technology partners, we were able to come to market with new upgrade turbo solutions. We also worked diligently to develop our own 'MONSTER' intercoolers and intake plumbing. I think our overall upgrade strategy compliments the overbuilt nature of the 997 perfectly.”

Switzer's tuning program eventually led to the firm's L4 PKG, which delivers over 700 horsepower on 93 octane gasoline with upgraded versions of Porsche's excellent factory VTG turbos – all while remaining emissions compliant. “You could never do something like this ten years ago on stock internals,” he explains. “The older air-cooled Porsche engines just couldn't handle that kind of power without a fully substantially reinforced engine.”

Eventually, though, Switzer's customers wanted more than 700 or 800 hp. “Too much is never enough for some clients,” offers Tym, “so in order to develop a solid engine program for these more ambitious projects, it was essential to see just how much power some of these stock components could stand up to, when tuned properly. We then spoke to a few of our more adventurous clients and decided to see exactly where the limits of the 997 really are.”

Last fall, Switzer and his crew reached 850 all-wheel horsepower (approx. 1000 crank hp) with their SLEDGEHAMMER project car. That prodigious power output and the car's standard all-wheel-drive traction delivered enough performance for repeated 9.7-second quarter-mile runs at over 145 mph with 60-130 times in the 4's – performance that falls well into “Superbike” territory.

This week, one year on, Switzer's SLEDGEHAMMER is still pulling strong, serving as the company's 997 development mule and astonishing everyone with its engine's longevity and durability. “Everyone who has been in this industry for a number of years is surprised by these cars,” says Tym. “Really, though, there's no surprises here. When we reached 700 hp a year and a half ago, we were told the engines were time-bombs. Dozens of customer cars and literally thousands of road - and track! - miles later, the cars are still running strong. The P800 kit we introduced earlier this year proved that the limit wasn't anywhere near 700 hp, and earlier this week, the original SLEDGEHAMMER came back to the shop and did back-to-back dyno pulls at 915 horsepower with nearly 800 lb-ft of torque. We've made some minor updates to the fuel system and standalone engine management system, but that's still 50 hp and almost 100 lb-ft more than the car's best numbers a year ago, and it's still holding together. As expected. I think, more than anything, these huge power levels serve to show just how good the Porsche 997 Turbo is from the factory. As a tuner, you couldn't ask for a better, stronger foundation. The real challenge has been to make the most of what's already there.”



So, what's next for the 997-engined SLEDGEHAMMER? A good deal more abuse! “We're going to run a few more experiments with this development car. There are still a few questions I have that I would like to answer for future product development. There is still an enormous amount of potential in the 997, and we're all curious to see how far this particular rabbit hole goes!”
 
Old Feb 11, 2011 | 03:03 PM
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Old Feb 11, 2011 | 03:19 PM
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Hey Neil the article is a great one but it talks exclusively about the 997TT ....how about for us 996TT guys, is it the same for us (in terms of things like potential, durability, performance envelope etc...) or are there differences in what was mentioned in the write up in regards to the 997TT compared to the 996TT ...for example the engine materials, the turbos k16 or k24 vs. the VTG units ....etc....etc...
 
Old Feb 11, 2011 | 03:25 PM
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Very similar Sunir, that's for sure. The 997TT's tend to breath a bit better and make a bit more power, but other than that they are very similar.

The K series turbos are decent and obviously the VTG's are better, but for a car that will see extreme heat soak conditions and abuse (road course) I would recommend our custom Alpha turbos.
 
Old Feb 11, 2011 | 03:30 PM
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Is there a big difference between the Alpha's and the Alpha billet wheels? efficiency and power?
 
Old Feb 11, 2011 | 03:32 PM
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The SPI - Alpha turbos spool quicker and make more power on the top end, best of both worlds.
 
Old Feb 11, 2011 | 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sunir
Hey Neil the article is a great one but it talks exclusively about the 997TT ....how about for us 996TT guys, is it the same for us (in terms of things like potential, durability, performance en
So you noticed that too??

In the past, elite tuning firms like Ruf and TechArt were forced to replace dozens of internal engine components with bespoke, strengthened parts to handle the loads that 600+ horsepower put on them. All that changed, however, with the introduction of the 997 model Porsche Turbos in 2006.
Is this true?? Can the 996TT motor really not handle 600+ hp reliably without upgrading internals?
 
Old Feb 12, 2011 | 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by NineElevenLover
Heh, I'm definitely not spending 3 to 6 grand for an exhaust.

I'm thinking something more along the lines of this.

http://www.boostlogic.com/?page_id=221

Summary of (straight line) GOALS: 550 awhp and/or 1/4 mile of ~11.1 @ 130 mph; eventually I will want to break into the 10s, but not right away

I simply want to know how those goals will affect the longevity/reliability of the motor and driveline components. I don't care much about the reliability of the turbos, as I will be replacing them.
If you're not prepared to spend some money on an exhaust all of your other mods will be a waste of money. The stock exhaust will just be a choke point for larger turbo's and remapped ECU. The cheapest new exhaust is about $2k with 200 cell cats. If you plan to break into the 10s you'll be looking at a 100 cell cat exhaust and a beefier clutch assembly plus turbos and ECU remap. Turbo's (while not cheap) are an external part (ie not much labor). You start pushing things too far beyond 550hp and you're stressing very expensive internal engine and tranny components (high parts and labor costs). Also plan to spend a few bucks on the suspension as the stock SUV ride height leaves a lot to be desired.
 
Old Feb 12, 2011 | 03:38 AM
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Is this true?? Can the 996TT motor really not handle 600+ hp reliably without upgrading internals?
He was referring to 964 and 993 turbo engines I think. The internals are pretty much the same between the 996 and 997.
 
Old Feb 12, 2011 | 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 2muchtime
Please post back and let us know what you think??
The guy sold it to someone this week before I could go take a look at it. Doh.

I have my eye on another one, though, that looks quite a bit nicer (and completely stock, which is ideal).

Originally Posted by emadelta86
He was referring to 964 and 993 turbo engines I think. The internals are pretty much the same between the 996 and 997.
Are there any webpages with good technical info as to what's inside these motors? I have yet to find anything really descriptive about the stock internals of the motor in the 996TT.
 


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