It will be Ken at nine excellence fitting the hard pipe kit. He has done a few tips before. I think the Billets and Tune will be from Tod K. (I'm not sure but that's who I think the Billets and tune and perhaps the hard piping is from)
As to the Tip boxes and 6 speed boxes, its my understanding that using % losses is not very accurate with higher than stock cars. For eg. If a TIP standard car losses 27% through the tip ( 113 bhp) then just because you have say 600 bhp doesn't mean it looses 27%.
The original 27% loss is on the factory car at a given standard BHP. Once you know how much a transmission losses , in this case 113bhp you then know that is the figure to take away from the Crank power. There is no reason a more powerful car should loose more power through the same transmission that the lower power lost. Its goes the same way if you detune a standard car, if a transmission soaked up 113 bhp to run it then it soaks up 113 bhp. Losses are not power related , they are caused by the internals of the Tip such as oil pumps and also normal friction losses.
So I would expect a 600 bhp crank power car still to loose about 113 BHP?
Its been an annoying point with me for a while now how the percentage loss is carried right through the power upgrades. This would mean a 1000 BHP Tip car only puts 730 at the wheels or a 1200 bhp Tip only putting sown 876 bhp.
I would have expected a Billet K16 with 630 crank BHP to be putting down about 515 at the wheels and a 670 BHP k16 Billet to be putting down about 557 BHP.

 

What's the estimated drivetrain loss for a 6 speed?

 

I would love if you proved me wrong, but I don't think you are right.

My car with Alpha 28 turbos, injectors, 3" soft intake piping, agency intercoolers tb plenum and exhaust got to 560 whp (AWD) at 1.6 bar on VP109. This was after several dyno runs and data logs and reflashes.

 

I think on a standard car the figure quoted is 19%@ which is about 80 bhp. Not having one I haven't really taken any notice.

I do know that it is less than the Tip. Its make's sense I suppose as there is much less internals to turn.
The Torque converter isn't a worry as it will lock up. ie stop slipping. It will just act like a flywheel at high rpm's

I was thinking of having my TC modded to up the stall speed for launches but I haven't decided on that at the moment.

 

As to the billet K16 I honestly dont know what power , I was just using figures as an example.
But I do think that any box isn't going to loose more power because you are putting more power thought it. After All its just a bit of hard ware/machinery the engine is turning. So long as the TC has locked then there is no slippage just the internal friction of the parts and the constant load of the oil pump.
In the end its timings on the road that count. but I have always found losses in a gear box to be a finite amount and not change as the power goes up.

With the K16 billets I was hoping to get 650 crank which is I suppose about 537 at the wheels BHP, with injectors, piping, Tod K tune and UK 99 Ron fuel. But that is entely my hopes and wishes. What I was told is that with injectors you can get about 30 bhp less than 18g Turbos??? not knowing too much about 18g's I dont know what figure I would endup with

I,m sure I was told the Billets K16's ( not to be confused with K16g's) will give the Alpas a good run ofr their money, perhaps not quite as good but certainly not too far behind. Its the same as the 18g's almost as good but not quite.

I hope so myself but we will see.

 

I would definitely go with injectors since you have all the other supporting mods...you spent a lot on the inlet piping and intercoolers, so why not hook it up on the fueling? Either way, your fuel economy is going to suck...I got ~13 MPG with 16g and a 5bar and now i get about 11 MPG with alpha 28's and injectors (I drive like I stole it though). Once again, the tiptronic kills your fuel economy

What do you think you would get just driving it off boost , say like a Patrol car was behind you in a 30 limit

What then roughly do you think you would get?? I'm doing about 12-14k per year with fuel at £6.81 ( About $11) per gallon so fuel mileage does count.

 

Our torque converters rarely lock up, this is why the power loss is always changing.

I do agree with you there is not a linear formula. However, I guarantee you though if you have a 400 hp car putting out 300 at the wheels and double the horsepower to 800...you will not be putting 700 to the wheels. It will probably be like 640 or 650.

When I got my tiptronic built, I had the torque converter rebuilt as well....IPT added a carbon ceramic clutch and a 3200RPM stall.

As far as mileage, the only time I didn't floor my car was my 200 mile journey to goliad, tx and back. I average around 100MPH and got about 17-18MPG.

 

do you think getting the TC modded is a good thing. whilst the box is out , if I'm going to do it , then that would be the right time. what disadvantages are there raising the stall speed??

The box is going to MKB as i already have issues with the torque I have now.

18 MPH is not so bad, I think the US gallon is smaller than the UK gallon. So that would be a better figure over here.
Thanks

 

I would get it done. BHT had the evo torque converter. You could just go with that one...probably cheaper than mkb. Does mkb even offer torque converters?

Stall is up to you...at 3200 I get a decent amount of wheel spin on sumitomos. I want to try drag r compound.

You thinking of going rwd? That will help the power loss a tad. I am AWD for my safety and everyone else on road.

Be sure your guy has done hard inlet pipes on a 996 turbo tiptronic...its really difficult.

My mechanic did my silicone blest (and BHT's)...and he won't do another.

 

I think Ken sends the TC away to some on in the UK not MKB.

I believe its the Hard Pipe he is doing. I could have had his Blow through of his car but I dont like where the filters are. In out Scottish weather I can see the filters picking up water and dirt.

There's no way I'd go RWD for similar reasons as your self. Been there with a Cosworth and I needed head lamps on the side of the car because it spent more time going sideways than I did going forward.

 

scotthenry41.pdf

#'s depend on car, weather, upgrades etc.. I have AP IC's, Billets with injectors from Tony, and dyno tune. HP seems lower than some but torque is much higher.... with 100 octane both numbers are thru the roof! The car is truely insane with 93oct, getting some 100oct this weekend!!!

 

Do you have a tip or 6speed?

 

.....

 

definetly an interesting discussion. i would love to see dynos from the same dyno of K16billet, 18G, A28, A30 using the same fuel. Lets not forget there is now a billet 18G now too...

K16 billets and 16G may make close to peak power of 18G but their HP curve starts to drop off after 5500rpm vs where a larger turbo will keep that max hp number to redline...

 

Now thats really interesting, if your not into Vmax and top end speed then that might not be a big disadvantage. I, more of a change gear at 6000 rpm guy anyway.
i have only just fitted 2 new K16's with 360 deg thrusts and 6 deg cuts so I dont want to throw that money away buying 18's or 20's.
If Billet 16's will do almost that of 18/18g's that could be a great compromise as most of the standard K16 is retained hence keeping the costs down
I was thinking of biting the bullet and just going the full K24 /20g that Ken has, but I'm not sure on a road car I need 800 BHP.

My heart say just go for the full kit, but my brain says go for Billet 16's.