996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

Clutch and Flywheel

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Old May 19, 2011 | 06:11 PM
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BTW, the dunk sound doesnt necessarily mean you need a new flywheel, though if you wait until its slipping you will hot spot the fly, and it will chatter upon engagement unless you replace it.
 
Old May 19, 2011 | 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by reddswiss
My clutch is just starting to slip under boost in higher gears. My mechanic (Porsche Dealer) is telling me I need to replace the flywheel along with the clutch. Is this true? This seems like it would only be necessary in extreme situations.

I enjoy my car. This is my fifth Porsche. I am not able to work on my own cars here in Switzerland. since moving here I don't have a place to wrench. That and I only have basic tools here.

Thanks...
The best and most pain free thing to do is replace the flywheel. But I will tell you right now, you can resurface a dual mass flywheel. But you have to anchor the center part that mounts to the cranks and check for flywheel play. You also have to make sure the flywheel isn't warped. Too much play or warpage and it is a waste. Dual mass flywheels have to be be machined so that the distance between the pressure plate mounting surface and the clutch disk friction surface are the same as new. If you machine just the friction surface it will cause premature clutch slipping due to the increased depth between the outer step and the friction surface. It will be around $100 for a resurface. If your car has been drag raced your flywheel is most likely done. If you plan to drag race replace the flywheel. And FYI the dealer will always tell you replace the flywheel. If money is a factor resurface the flywheel. It has been done for years and your car will not explode because it has a Porsche emblem If you replace it I would go with the 964RS LWFW.
 
Old May 20, 2011 | 05:14 PM
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On a tt? I wouldnt risk the time/labor to do it twice. Yeah, you can do anything, including resurfacing a DMF, but the question is why?
 
Old May 20, 2011 | 05:57 PM
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Not to be brash but I have either of you held a dual flywheel in your hand? After you surface grind the area that the disc mates to, how do you cut the step? Or do you just cut the centering ring off the outer edge and pray for the best? also the flywheel flexes while it is being cut and you will get inconsistent surface finish. This is why the starter ring is removable from the single mass flywheel.
 
Old May 20, 2011 | 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim941NYC
Not to be brash but I have either of you held a dual flywheel in your hand? After you surface grind the area that the disc mates to, how do you cut the step? Or do you just cut the centering ring off the outer edge and pray for the best? also the flywheel flexes while it is being cut and you will get inconsistent surface finish. This is why the starter ring is removable from the single mass flywheel.
I have held a dual mass flywheel. I removed my S4 flywheel and had it resurfaced. What they do is pull the alignment pins out of the stepped mounting surface and machine that in addition to the friction surface. The alignment pins are pressed in. Mine was done on a milling machine with a large rotary table. It was done in 2 hours including replacing the pilot bearing. The difficulty is finding somebody that knows how to do it right.
 
Old May 20, 2011 | 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by VAGscum
I have held a dual mass flywheel. I removed my S4 flywheel and had it resurfaced. What they do is pull the alignment pins out of the stepped mounting surface and machine that in addition to the friction surface. The alignment pins are pressed in. Mine was done on a milling machine with a large rotary table. It was done in 2 hours including replacing the pilot bearing. The difficulty is finding somebody that knows how to do it right.
The 996 flywheel is not the same! When you hold one you will see.
 
Old May 21, 2011 | 06:44 AM
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I see what you mean, but where is the difficulty? The amount removed is so small. A milling machine with a rotary table will do it.
 
Old May 21, 2011 | 09:54 AM
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when it is off a little you will get a vibration in the pedal and or rough engagement. In the north east highly qualified machine shops will not waste their time with something like that knowing the problems that can come from it. Plus the install is hard enough to do for the penny's that the vast majority of owners will pay for the job. Then do it a second time for free because some cheap owner seen a thread somewhere and now he is flaming you on the same forum. My .02 cents is worth thousands sometimes.
 
Old May 21, 2011 | 10:52 AM
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when it is off a little you will get a vibration in the pedal and or rough engagement. In the north east highly qualified machine shops will not waste their time with something like that knowing the problems that can come from it. Plus the install is hard enough to do for the penny's that the vast majority of owners will pay for the job. Then do it a second time for free because some cheap owner seen a thread somewhere and now he is flaming you on the same forum. My .02 cents is worth thousands sometimes.
I am just speaking from my personal experience. I never had a vibration or engagement issues. And neither did the handfull of friends that got it done either. The amount removed is so small that it would have to be very far off to cause issues. And if it is not held down right then it will be off, but that comes down to using the right machine shop. The same risk of inaccuracy is possible on single mass flywheels too. And the only real difference between the two is the machining process is how you clamp the piece down. I am not trying to convince everyone to resurface their flywheels, i am just trying to shed some light on the fact that if done right it will be as good as new and save money. Their is a small risk that the machine shop would be off in their machining, but it isn't something the right machine shop can't avoid. If that scares you, spend 1k on a new flywheel. It really isn't that big of a deal.
 
Old May 21, 2011 | 09:45 PM
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All the 996/7 dual mass flywheels I have seen have thrust play in them, this makes it quite tricky to lock up. When you hit it with the surface grinder and you see it only hits some spots and not others you wonder if its warped or if you are not square and parallel to the table. Remember the 996 uses a pull type clutch and every time you step on the clutch the flywheel is being pulled apart, unlike your Audi setup. Sometimes you can save a buck but I do not feel this is one of them. Single mass all day long as long as the there is no discolored spots on the back side of the flywheel.
 
Old May 27, 2011 | 07:07 PM
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Yes I have held plenty of dual mass flys, some can be diss assembled compltelety, and even refilled with damping grease. "With the cost of doing it twice, if it goes wrong...question is still, why bother? A new dmf is still around 1200.00, and a 964 Rs Fly is approx 600.00
You still need a new disc and pressure plate, so what is the issue?
Machining is gonna set you back 200 anyway. So do the math...theres an *** for every seat. If you dont mind gear noise at idle, go with the 964 RS set up, your engine revs and responds quicker...
Jay.
 
Old May 27, 2011 | 07:58 PM
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Jay, I'm with you! DM 996/7 flywheel is onetime use in my book.
 
Old May 28, 2011 | 06:51 PM
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Well just went out today and accelerated off a 25 Mph cloverleaf from the interstate... 2 nd gear and nothing but RPM's and a burning smell... Slowed down and crippled back to the house.. Likely a burnt clutch. Seems to be fine when I went out after 6 hours and it cooled down. If the clutch is gone, can you advise me on a more robust clutch set up. Also, for some reason I am getting an intermittent wine and it goes away after i push the clutch pedal down. Not sure what is up. It figures, I finally get the boat fixed and wouldn't you know the TT goes down.. The Audi dealer just took 1400 from me last week.... Welcome any advice on a clutch upgrade? Wish there was some true specialist over here on the east coast as well....
 
Old May 28, 2011 | 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by aircavscout
Well just went out today and accelerated off a 25 Mph cloverleaf from the interstate... 2 nd gear and nothing but RPM's and a burning smell... Slowed down and crippled back to the house.. Likely a burnt clutch. Seems to be fine when I went out after 6 hours and it cooled down. If the clutch is gone, can you advise me on a more robust clutch set up. Also, for some reason I am getting an intermittent wine and it goes away after i push the clutch pedal down. Not sure what is up. It figures, I finally get the boat fixed and wouldn't you know the TT goes down.. The Audi dealer just took 1400 from me last week.... Welcome any advice on a clutch upgrade? Wish there was some true specialist over here on the east coast as well....
Your power steering reservoir is likely going bad if you have an intermittent high pitched whine that goes away when you press in the clutch. There is a TSB for that to replace it with a newer part. A good clutch option is the Sachs stage 2 or Clutchmasters stage 3 (also uses Sachs parts). I have the Sachs stage 2 with the factory DM flywheel and its just like OEM except with much greater clamping ability. Lot of guys like the Clutchmasters.
 
Old May 28, 2011 | 11:03 PM
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Sounds like the slave is hanging up, not giving full engagement right away. The whine is your release bearing, could be binding, also causing a slow release. Clutch slippage is usually noticeable first, in a higher gear...when on boost longer and generating sufficient torque to break an other wise good clutch loose. Not to say it wont in a lower gear, but seems to prevail in higher load situations first.
 


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