i dont think rain is a big deal. in order for you to suck up water in the filters that sit right off the turbos you have to be up to the door in water. not sure why anyone would do that, regardless of how often you drive your car.

filters will get pretty damn dirty and grimy down there and i think you can fit them under a bit of an angle. or build headers and move turbos further back in the car.

 

Yeh I think it can be done with big enough drawing board. I definitely want to keep IC's in line with duct work. I think this is very important.

 

Tim , the math and numbers are nice and look cool, but i dont really care , on the highway doing 60 to 160 run the air going through there is so great that i very highly doubt it will affect it. even on the street, you act as if the filter is one solid piece of metal or something and that air can not go through it or around it..

when you figure out a better way then the proto band aid fix , do let us know.. cuase proto and evoms, and switzer run the same getup on their high powered cars .

prodigy , ive seen regular setups heatsoak on every pull aswell, whats your point ? depending on the ic's the car was running did he have proper fans ? etc.... you get point my point.

 

So when the air is traveling inside your "Y" pipe at 200mph and other plumbing you want it streamlined, laminar, transitionless, and turbulence free? But if it's going through the IC you don't?

It is more than an obstruction!! While it disrupts air flow not only by obstruction it is also sucking in enough air to allow 200mph flows occur inside the system. Not only is it obstructing but it is pulling air out of the path. And particularly these thick 4.5+ inch cores have got have directed velocity to be maximized and get air all the way through..

Does it work...apparently. Could it be better...yes! And that's what we are discussing. I'm sure all the big vendors are already 2 steps ahead and looking for new ideas.

 

ok so why bother discussing? especially if your biggest point/arguemnt is "because big tuners are doing it".

my setup goes up in power for the first 3 pulls on dyno and on 4th pull starts to heat soak. this is literally with no cool down time too. what do i know though - i am not a big name tuner
personally to me it's obvious that a "huge filter blocking the IC core" design can be improved upon. while i do agree with you guys that getting rid of stock style inlet piping is beneficial.

 

Has anyone actually measured the air pressure in the intercooler intakes at various road speeds without a cone filter being there.

A rising air-pressure there could indicate that the intercooler is a restriction to airflow (which you would expect) which would also mean you have a level of ram induction if the airfilter is there, the benefit of which should outweigh the increase in off duty cooldown period for the intercooler.

It is worth remembering that the intercooler is there to store heat when on boost and release it mostly when off boost, much of which happens internally back into the intake as well as into the air flowing around the outside of the intercooler.

Not only this, but a 900 BHP 996 turbo can only spend a finite amount of time "on boost", which means that even in the most wild drive in the most powerful of 996 Turbo on even an optimum intercooler torturing race track, the off boost part of the duty cycle will be far more than the on boost portion.

My feeling is that heat soak would be a problem to the air temp being drawn into the cone filter on a dyno and maybe if drag racing repeated runs at the start/staging part of the run, but in real world road applications I do not imagine it would be a problem, especially once a speed is reached at which air begins to flow through the side scoop/intercooler intake.

On the other hand... I could be talking tish!

 

[quote=unvmy996;3512382]Tim , the math and numbers are nice and look cool, but i dont really care , on the highway doing 60 to 160 run the air going through there is so great that i very highly doubt it will affect it. even on the street, you act as if the filter is one solid piece of metal or something and that air can not go through it or around it..

when you figure out a better way then the proto band aid fix , do let us know.. cuase proto and evoms, and switzer run the same getup on their high powered cars .

I'll bite... With all the fab wizards on this board no one has done it yet?? I have some ideas but really would not like to share them yet. But lets just say you are not running the turbo intake pipe because you went MAF less or a blow through set up, why do the turbos need to be where there are? I have a few places to stick them other then where they are. I think the ruff yellow bird had holes cut in the rear quarters to feed air to the turbos and that some old technology. Would you agree? Just because its the easiest, most profit earning way does not mean it is the best.. But after what some guy's spent on there mod here I think some of the cars should be breaking every record. My .02 cents

 

its not , i was stating that the cars holding the big records are using this system regardless if its block the ic.

so did mine, in 90 degree weather , mike levitas can vouch for that. But alot of places do not place adequate fans or powerful enough fans when they are dynoing....

 

[quote=Tim941NYC;3512675]Tim, you are right.so like i said feel free to share .i think they do it this why cause im sure alot of people would be hesitant for some reason to move turbos around etc....i personally wouldnt care .

 

Tim... Now don't you go making sense again...

Matt and I spit ball ideas probably 90% of the time we are together. 50% of them make it to Zohair and Justin... 5% make it past them and on to my car. LOL! Not saying that all are bad, but cost/safety/etc. are mainly the reasoning.

 

Not sure why you guys are even arguing about this... it works.. and works well.. no its not for everyone... but lets not discount the fact that all of the 996 and 997s that ever ran 9s have that piping above ICs... ( a small filter on the turbo just for the run lol) if that... and the fastest 60 to 130s as well...
so lets debate that before you guys discount it online without ever trying it...
markski

 

We are using Proto fenderwell intake on several cars for 2-3 years with zero problems. Nothing like our weather for testing mods performance and safety lol

 

I think you bring up the crux of the discussion/debate. Many on this forum define "fast" as being able to accelerate quickly or wow people with a big dynojet plot where the car was loaded for 4 seconds. No doubt that a car making enough power to cover the 1320 in the 9s or run quick 60-130s has an extreme about of load on the engine. However, 9 secs is nothing to an intercooler. In that case, getting as much free air to the turbos as possible and allowing the intercooler to be a heat sink isn't an issue at all and, as proven, works best. Same applies to the street race "warriors" who don't load for more than 20s at a time.

On the other hand, if your definition of fast is a car that can sustain load (on the order of minutes vs seconds) at high speeds on some of the big US road courses or tracks like Nordschleif, Bruntingthorpe or even the autobahn, then the monster IC + fenderwell intakes probably isn't such a good idea. There's a reason dudes like JA Motorsports don't run a thick cooler + fenderwells on their 1000hp 997 that sustains over 240mph for minutes on end, same for many other endurance race teams. As Tim said, the air taken by each turbo isn't a trivial amount and acceptable heat management on these cars under sustained grueling conditions is not an easy task.

All boils down to what you use the car for. This subforum tends to obsess more over the former, not that there's anything wrong with that

 

No dispute there but most guys who do high hp cars do not do it for sustained WOT driving. Look on this forum- its all about dynos and numbers where a very selected few even care about what the car does in sustained conditions.
The Texas mile, and I would think Is a very tough run on a p car, is probably owned by a similar blow thru / mafless xxx set up with intakes about ic's... Im guessing Evoms... Or no intakes period lol .
I'm not making this up nor saying this is the best option... but it works on high HP cars.. just ask Protomotive, BBI, Switzer, Evoms... don't listen to me...
We are all in pursuit of speed but sustained intake temps over 10 minutes at WOT on the autobahn are least of most worries - we do not run these cars this way... Thus my definition of fast maybe different from others but I'm guessing I'm in the very big majority... HP numbers, 60 to 130s, maybe 1/4 mph, etc... this is the US market. We all can be P car purists and leave everything OEM... put on some Porsche gloves on a Sunday run and call it a day... but then we wouldn't be here if that would be the case...
best,
Markski

 

Mark, your fuel system upgrade is right in line with your thoughts on intercoolers.. "its all about dynos and numbers where a very selected few even care about what the car does in sustained conditions"