I HAVE the solid bushings on my car. I put them in when my engine and suspension was out this past spring. That's why I chimed in as I have a direct before and after comparison. Again, I don't see the need for a street car but I don't see a draw back either. If that makes sense.

 

completely! i just know that a dual duty car need operate within that very small margin of "street ability" vs performance and for a car that see's the majority of the time being legal and drivable on - lets say a dinner date - that solid rear subs *mght be" crossing that invisible and purely subjective line in terms of others comfort and even alone, long distances, noise is/can be wearing on a driver. the simple equation seems to be: that every mod that increases stability/rigidity, whatever. power. increases to some degree, noise.

eg i find out very quickly the threshold my passenger may have for NVH, and its usually better to find out in the car, than later. but i will find out.

i am, and my car, are still straddling that line line between modded and wholly given over to the dark side. but i'd like nothing more than to do what this guy puppan? in here has done to his car, or for that matter finish the few things you have done that i have not ( though i'm close lol ) it's just i do drive to market still it's just you should see the roads that take me there! lol

 

LOL its all good, but if you get the chance to do them do it without a second thought
Cheers,
Rob

 

well, if i DID replace them it would be because the engine came out again, so you understand my hoping they stay as is

 

The thing I keep coming back to (myself, anyway) regarding these is that the GT2 and GT3 came with the solid bushings in a 100% stock configuration, including rubber bushings throughout the rest of the suspension. It suggests (to me) that there really is zero (or extremely minimal) NVH from these, and it's really more about improving suspension geometry for lower ride height.

The turbo didn't come with these stock simply because the higher ride height didn't require them and the rubber ones are cheaper than the solid version (educated guess on my part).

 

i think it's less about ride height or increased handling/performance than it is them making the car more comfortable for what wouldve been their average buyer of the turbo model. remember the buyers back then wanted a cushy gt car, not a track capable gt3.

 

But both the GT2 / GT3 and the TT had rubber bushings throughout the rest of the suspension. I don't think the subframe bushing material adds / detracts any " cushiness " in this application, and that seems to be supported by everyone who has changed them (full disclosure, I have not).

 

The GT2/3 still has a ton of rubber in the stock suspension, almost as much as the TT. In stock form, the only place the GT2/3 differs from the TT relative to rubber in the suspension is the solid monoball upper front mounts and the rear solid subframe bushings. Of all the various items I have run and tested on my car like semi solid engine mounts, transmission mounts, monoball suspension mounts, etc, I can unequivocally say that everything had a perceived difference in NVH except the solid subframe bushings. I could not tell any difference in NVH with those whatsoever. The worst NVH offender by far was the GMG urethane transmission mount which I yanked out after only a 5 mile test drive. I saw ZERO performance benefit, only a ton of NVH. The 964RS semisolid engine mounts on the other hand has almost zero drawback with just a tiny bit of perceived engine vibration at idle. Various monoball suspension pieces added more road feel and some harshness over broke roads and expansion joints but not really much more noise to speak off. Certainly nothing I would consider objectionable.

Look at it this way. Porsche would not install anything on these cars if the result was an objectionable level of NVH to the average owner. Statistically, the average GT2/3 owners by a large margin are the guys that polish their cars in the garage and take it out to C&C on the weekend instead of the track.

 

Makes perfect sense to me. Excellent post.

 

my only real frame of reference is the semi-solid wevo's and as much a i love em with just a fresh 997 t-mount; so the only way to describe them and the feel that emanates from the rear section the car is by call it is added nvh. it isn't "bad"!, its just noticeably more vibration and connectedness; new + "feel". i think i'm going to add the cables and either go numeric and the cables together, and that is on the same driveline and it'll be consequently more of the same nvh.

i don't know what it's like to have the suspension all "mono" as pwdrhound has done. but as some point ( even where im at now ) the car is pretty stiff on the street!

..and agree your post above makes plenty of sense to me also.

 

That's why I've never been a fan of any of the aftermarket stuff instead choosing to go with OEM PMNA or RS parts whenever there is a choice for a particular application. Porsche Motorsport parts are race proven items designed by a company with an unlimited R&D budget versus most of the small aftermarket companies cranking out parts in a small machine shop somewhere. Not saying they're bad, but sometimes come with drawbacks as people are finding out..

Relative to a shifter, I have looked at and tried just about everything and will be installing a PMNA Cup shifter / cables. Again, there are many choices out there but I prefer OEM race proven parts.

 

re the pmna shifter/cables yes, i'd look into them first now you mention them! i'm of that mindset also when it comes to anything even remotely race oriented for the car. first question is there an OEM choice! e.g. but on balance when you and briefly discused merits of a gt3 bar vs tarret's copy same dimensions/same materials?!. i think that a pretty good example of where one might have an equal yet lesser expensive option. but i'm one who fundamentally beileves that porsche always has it right first. then comes the second guessing lol

edit: wait!~ I've heard cup cables! maybe for the track.. but for the street? they are loud and whine a bit!... no!? ehh, they'd probably suit me lol

 

I've driven a friends 6GT3 with the cup shifter and cables and could not hear any whine or buzzing at all. On a cup car it may be audible as there is no console or interior to deaden the noise but I certainly could not hear anything on his car. It's a bulletproof combo. How many cup shifters or cables have you ever heard breaking? Honestly, the cup cables are probably overkill for the street. In over a 100 hard track hours I've actually never had any issue with the stockers if everything is properly rigged.

 

There's zero rubber in my car's suspension. Wevo engine mounts and locally done urethane transmission mounts. Cup shifter and cables. IMO only source of NVH is those engine and transmission mounts, which amplify LWFW's rattle...oh dear... Going monoballed/solid subframe did not add a thing. And even if they did, it can't be overheard anyway.

BTW, Cup cables and shifter are just superb!

 

i'll probably end up doing it all, replacing comfort for more of the cars own sounds. it's not as if thats not why I'm in it several times a day

thx for the advice gents...and pwdrhound you know you'll get some pm from me if i'm ever not sure about which part/direction to go. you're helpful always ! thx