996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

Injector cleaner?

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Old Nov 12, 2014 | 12:30 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by sparks
I was wondering if anyone has ever used any type of injector cleaner. I have a misfire on 2 cylinders, I am replacing coils, plugs and fuel filter. I am running a little lean, thought maybe a slightly clogged injector mite be the culprit or fuel pump or maybe a clogged filter. go through process of elimination. No bad codes except the misfires. It runs lean with stock tune or performance tune.
If the misfires were due to a lean condition I would think there would be error codes associated with the DME being over the adaptation threshold.

IOWs, for run of the mill lean conditions the DME should be able to adapt without exceeding its adaptation range.

Replace the coils and plugs. Please note the condition of each plug. You are looking for a plug, or plugs, that differ in their appearance from the others. Now with misfires those plugs in the misfiring cylinders will naturally (so to speak) look different.

If you have a performance tune plugs can go away quicker. (They go away quick enough with the stock engine's "tune".) Might also mention that the MAF in a tuned engine can go bad sooner due to being asked to measure the mass of more air than it was designed for.

If after you replace the coils/plugs and do not see any thing scary about the condition of the plugs, you can use a bottle of Techron as per directions on the bottle to affect a fuel system, injector, combustion chamber, O2 sensor cleansing.

If you do not notice any benefit with one bottle you can try a 2nd bottle.

Change the oil after you use up the fuel with Techron in it.

Note: if the misfires continue or the engine begins to run poorly do not continue to run the engine.

Just a FYI, persistent misfires can arise from a burned exhaust valve. Running any engine lean is not a good idea. Running a turbo-charged engine lean is a bad idea.

However, a burned valve is rare.

Still rare, but more common than a burned exhaust valves, is the misfires can also arise -- IIRC -- from a cracked VarioCam Plus solenoid bracket.

Oh, I should stress that the lean condition -- be it with the stock or performance tune -- should be addressed.

Like I said above: Running a turbo-charged engine lean is a bad idea.
 
Old Nov 12, 2014 | 01:39 PM
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only to add to macsters info on plugs..

a tuned car literally burns through plugs in as few a 5k miles. put in a set and replace at 5k and you'll see why.
 
Old Nov 12, 2014 | 02:41 PM
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?

I don't know of anyone adding it to the oil and leaving it in there. I think the directions on the bottle recommend changing the oil after X # of miles.

When I have used it in the oil I drive the car around to get it warm, about 15-20 minutes or so, I DO NOT go WOT, and then take it home and drain the oil. I'm of the opinion that it acts as a solvent and helps loosen any buildup. I did this once, it was before an oil / plug / coil change.

I do appreciate your informational post, and to be honest, the ingredients didn't overly concern me.

To each his own.

Some threads over on Rennlist, here is one ... http://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum...houghts-2.html
Everyone has an opinion on Seafoam, some have had success and others just won't touch it. If you follow the directions, I doubt you will have any issues IMO.


Originally Posted by Macster
Here's a cut/paste from a post I offered up in another thread regarding Seafoam. Note while I was specifically addressing the issue of Seafoam supplying extra/additonal engine protection, I think the information applicable to its use as a fuel system cleaner, too.

As for Seafoam… let us see what this contains that could possible for it to supply extra or additional engine protection…

The major component is "pale oil" CAS # 64742-54-7 which makes up of between 40 and 60% by weight of Seafoam.

What is 64742-54-7? It a complex combination of hydrocarbons obtained by treating a petroleum fraction with hydrogen in the presence of a catalyst. It consists of hydrocarbons having carbon numbers predominantly in the range of C20 through C50 and produces a finished oil of at least 100 SUS at 100.degree.F (19cSt at 40.degree.C). It contains a relatively large proportion of saturated hydrocarbons.

Pretty much the same base oil as is used in the manufacture of a number of oils.

Next comes "naphtha", CAS # 64742-49-0; and this makes up between 25 and 35 % of Seafoam. This is a feedstock for high octane gasoline and can be turned into a fuel for camp stoves, lighter fluid and a cleaner.

Third on the list: IPA. CAS # 67-63-0. Seafoam contains 10 to 20% of this stuff. What is this stuff? Isopropyl alcohol. This is widely as a solvent and as a cleaning fluid, especially for dissolving oils.

Dissolving oils? Not what I think I'd want to use in my Porsche engine's oil.

I see nothing in Seafoam that offers any "additional" lubrication. It simply replaces the existing oil (hopefully an approved oil) with some pale oil and a couple of other items: camp stove fuel and a cleaning solvent.

Yuck.


Just so it is clear, my advice is to not use Seafoam. Not mixed with gasoline. Not injected directly into the intake. And not added to the engine oil.

If you feel there is a need to clean the fuel system, the injectors, remove deposits from the chambers, etc., use Techron, as per directions on the bottle.

After the tank with Techron is down to say 1/4 level I like to change the oil/filter.

One should not have to use Techron very often. The proper fuel has detergents in it and should keep the fuel system clean, but it does need help. One has to drive the car in such a manner the fuel cleaners can work.

Based on my experience this requires one hit the highway with the car and drive at highway speeds for 30+ (and more is better) miles.

Running around town, even short bursts on the highway obtaining, shall we say hyper-legal speeds, is not sufficient.

Might also point out that Techron that one buys over the counter and adds to the fuel tank results in a more aggressive dose of Techron that is available in those gasolines that have Techron added already. The overuse of Techron brings with it the risk of fuel injector tip erosion and possibly other damage to the fuel system components over time.

As I like to say I prefer to keep the fuel systems clean in my Porsches organically but using a proper grade of top tier gasoline, buying fresh gasoline, and trying to drive my cars -- once in a while at least -- in a manner I covered above to give the cleaner present in the fuel a chance to do their job.
 

Last edited by JSBear; Nov 12, 2014 at 02:59 PM.
Old Nov 16, 2014 | 11:38 AM
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+ 1 on Chevron Techron
That **** is magic.
 
Old Nov 16, 2014 | 01:26 PM
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the list of ingredients macster posted from a sea foam ingredient list just looks like a list of stuff that burns, and fairly well i should say. but someone is talking about using it like "oil" ( WTF?) again, i'm talking ( perhaps to myself ) about the sea foam fuel tank additive that purports to be an "engine" cleaner. i know there are a couple specific and different types of sea foam. but who/why put that sh*t in your oil!?

i must be missing something. i just wanted to add one can as a flush in lieu of my bi-annual techron or lucas. kind of hoping it's like a carbon flush in its action.
 
Old Nov 16, 2014 | 04:57 PM
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I've had good experience while using it in my old 320i BMW. Do I use the techron stuff in the gas tank..yes. But another important note...Once I use the cleaner...I also change the oil too. Just my .02 cents....others might use other methods.

Oh...stabil gets used when she gets a full tank of gas for the winter nap.
 

Last edited by 0396; Nov 16, 2014 at 05:01 PM.
Old Nov 16, 2014 | 06:31 PM
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it is advised to change the oil as i suppose some contaminates the oil. i just never heard of an additive for OUR CARS that you add to the oil. stp anyone? lol at least it'll get my zddp up
 
Old Nov 16, 2014 | 07:03 PM
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I've used Seafoam on a few of my cars without any problems. I've sprayed it directly into the TB, put into the fuel as well as into the crankcase prior to an oil change. It's does a nice job of cleaning the fuel system as well as valves. I Dont think any product that actually does damage would remain on the market as long as Seafoam has. And let's just be honest, a Porsche engine operates the same as every other engine out there. I know that for some reason some people believe that there is some magic inside a Porsche engine and therfore we shouldnt put something like Seafoam inside....that's just silly.
 
Old Nov 16, 2014 | 07:28 PM
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i agree. that's why i'm gonna use it.
 
Old Nov 18, 2014 | 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kendall993
I've used Seafoam on a few of my cars without any problems. I've sprayed it directly into the TB, put into the fuel as well as into the crankcase prior to an oil change. It's does a nice job of cleaning the fuel system as well as valves. I Dont think any product that actually does damage would remain on the market as long as Seafoam has. And let's just be honest, a Porsche engine operates the same as every other engine out there. I know that for some reason some people believe that there is some magic inside a Porsche engine and therfore we shouldnt put something like Seafoam inside....that's just silly.
I certainly do not believe there's something magic in a Porsche engine.

However these are in spite of the bad press for the 996 N/A engine well designed engines. I note we must all think that way as we own Porsches and specifically 996 Turbos with the quite highly regarded Mezger engine.

But in order to use Seafoam or something similar is to believe it has some magical ability to remove and hold in suspension in just a few minutes of running what a high detergent oil -- assuming one is running an approved oil or at least something "close" -- over hundreds of hours of running allowed to accumulate.

Similarly that adding a dose of Seafoam to fuel tank can undo the assumed failure of premium gasoline -- "premium" not only in the sense of its octane rating but in its level of detergent package -- to keep the fuel system clean.

Like I said in another post, I prefer to keep my car's engine clean organically using a proper oil and changing it at reasonable intervals, running a top tier gasoline, and whenever possible just driveing my car in such a way that the engine can clean itself by operating in such away that is conducive to self-cleaning.

Dumping additives into the oil, or the fuel system, or pouring some additive into the intake is not what I would do. That this additive is touted to work in all 3 of these types of applications should have anyone capable of critical thinking doubtful of its benefits.
 
Old Nov 18, 2014 | 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Macster
Similarly that adding a dose of Seafoam to fuel tank can undo the assumed failure of premium gasoline -- "premium" not only in the sense of its octane rating but in its level of detergent package -- to keep the fuel system clean.

Like I said in another post, I prefer to keep my car's engine clean organically using a proper oil and changing it at reasonable intervals, running a top tier gasoline, and whenever possible just driveing my car in such a way that the engine can clean itself by operating in such away that is conducive to self-cleaning.

Dumping additives into the oil, or the fuel system, or pouring some additive into the intake is not what I would do. That this additive is touted to work in all 3 of these types of applications should have anyone capable of critical thinking doubtful of its benefits.
macstr, there are ( iirc?? ) three different types of sea foam and hence three separate applications for the different config' of the additives. also, iirc i seem to recall your sharing with "us" your previous use of techron, and in the gas tank as an occasional additive?, adding a bottle of that once in a great while can't possibly do any harm to the injectors or cats or really anything.

no one can drive their cars regularly in a spirited enough manner to eliminate carbon buildup that occurs from normal stop/go city driving. that's all i would hope to accomplish.

if you have never used? or touted the perceived virtues of techron previously?? please disregard most of my reply
 
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