I recently replaced my left and right radiators with CSF units. I ran the car up to temp and let it cool 3 or 4 times to refill and bleed the coolant. I left the car on stands with the bumper and splash shields off to keep an eye on everything. No leaks, no issues. I put the bumper and splash shields back on and took it for a drive. Soon I smell coolant. The passenger side lower hose was leaking. The connection at the radiator was not fully seated. I knew for a fact it was fully seated before and had run the car up to temp several times before with no issues. I reseated the connection, but it still didn't feel 100%. I wiggled the hose a bit and could unseat the connection fairly easily. The retaining clip was fully seated and you could hear the "click" when the connection was seated. In this video, I unseated and reseated the connection 3 times. You can see the clip is seated and hear the "click" each time. You can see on the third time, I pulled the connection enough for it to drip.


At this point I thought maybe the new clips that came with the CSF radiators were not strong enough. So I pulled the new clip and tried an OEM clip. I did not realize they were different sizes until I tried the old OEM clip. So I reinstalled the CSF clip. This time, the connection seemed much tighter and I could not unseat the connection easily as I could before. I checked the other 3 and the seemed reasonably tight and were not leaking. I ran it up to temp with not issues. I put the splash shields back on and drove it.

This time the both the driver and passenger upper hoses dislodged.

Full disclosure: I did reuse the radiator hoses and o-rings. I know some will rush to blame the orings or hoses, but they have shown themselves to seal perfectly well as long as the integrity of the clip connection is maintained.

Possible explanations:
1. Insufficient mechanical connection between barb on hose and spring clip
2. Worn/compressed oring allowing connection to rotate slightly. This could then compound the point above.
3. Off quality/ slightly oversized fitting on CSF. This seems highly unlikely, but just throwing some ideas out there.

I plan on addressing 1 and 2 by replacing the orings and bending the barbs up (if possible) on the coolant hoses.

My question is to anyone with CSF radiators, how tight are your connections? Once seated will they move any in/out or side to side?

Thanks

 

video is private. might want to try contacting csf before hashing it out on the forums

 

when did you buy yours?
I was the first with these rads and found the issue with upper vent lines, I explained issue to CSF and all should be fixed by them...if you were an early adopter you may have the issue, CSF will make it right..
I chose to fix mine, which involved shaving the neck down by ~1mm.
Also, your issue could be caused by the old retaining clips and should replace those.
Cheers,
Rob

 

When I installed my CSF radiators, I used all new oem clips. I did not realize the radiators came with clips, but when holding them up to the oem clips, the oem's seemed more robust and a bit better quality, so I opted to use the oem clips. I did install all new hoses with my radiators which all seemed to clip in securely.

Based on your video, I think the hose/hoses are bad. The new hoses have been updated and have reinforced tangs that are less likely to deform and seem to hold much better. So with a possible deformed tang and/or the smaller diameter of the wire on the hose clips that CSF supplies, it could very well be keeping the hose from seating.

 

Video privileges updated. This was in no way meant to be an attack on CSF if that is what you are insinuating. I knew there were several members on the forum with CSF radiators and was interested in their first hand experience with the product.

I just bought the radiators a couple of weeks ago. Before purchase I asked if they were "new" stock and was told they were. Did you use the new updated hoses rabbit1445 mentions below? I noticed that a couple of the hoses are noted as being GT2 specific, but the radiators are not. Do you know anything about the differences?

Interesting about the clips. I held them side by side and the CSF clips were definitely longer. When I tried the OEM clips they did not seem to fit. Maybe I wasn't forceful or patient enough. I will try the OEM clip again tomorrow. CSF clip did not feel extremely tight when installed.

Great info regarding the updated OEM hoses as well. That coupled with new clips and orings will hopefully do the trick. Do you have the part #s you used? I was getting some conflicting numbers when looking them up. Do the updated hoses come with orings and clamps? Or do they need to be purchased separately? I know the clips are are separate.

Here is another video showing the movement in and out after the hose is "clicked" in

993GT and rabbit1445,
On your cars, is the metal lip of the radiator hose tight against the CSF fitting, or is there a gap?

Thanks for help guys.

 

The metal lip of the hose butts up pretty well against the radiator on mine. Naturally, there is a bit of movement, but not nearly as much as your video shows.

Once again comparing the clips side by side, the CSF clips are definitely elongated and made of thinner material. Oddly, only one of my radiator came with clips. The other two did not.

Here is the parts list for the hoses. All hoses come pre-installed with o-rings, but clips are sold separately. You could always try new o-rings and clips first and then only install hoses if the problem is not resolved, but seeing your video, I'd put my money on the hose being the culprit. Hope this helps.

99610662179 upper hose PRIMARY, Turbo Left
99610662179 upper hose PRIMARY, Turbo Right
99610662579 lower hose PRIMARY, Turbo Left
99610662678 lower hose PRIMARY, Turbo Right
99610680100 o-ring for drain plug (same as vent hose)
99610680215 retaining spring for vent hoses (same clip for drain plug)
99610680216 retaining clip for side radiator hoses
99610680217 retaining clip for center radiator hoses
99610663976 coolant hose, center radiator, left
99610663876 coolant hose, center radiator, right

 

Vman,

Sorry to hear that you are having problems with the rads.. PM me with your email/phone details, and we'll get this sorted out..

 

I just got my car back after having 2 of the CSF 7055/56 and have a leak in one as well. Are there any other installation problems which could cause a leak? I had a new bumper(Kit) and the installer "could not fit the fan ducts due to space issues" so now noisy fans (or just no insulation )as well as the leak...any relationship. I plan on asking if new clips from CSF were used. Are new hoses definitely recommended if they look fine upon inspection?

 

The problem is with the machining of the notch the clips sits in. Specifically the ends of the clip. You should test fit all clips before installing the radiators. If the clips don't seat well (like the 3rd video), they are probably are not going to seal.

This a video shows an OEM clip on an OEM radiator. The portions of the clip that lock the hose are slightly more closed than parallel. The clip will move parallel to the sealing bars, but not perpendicular ensuring both hose tabs are always securely engaged.

This video shows a CSF clip on one of my radiators. The fit is tight with little movement. However, notice the portions of the clip that locks the hose are slightly more open than parallel. Although relatively tight, not as tight as OEM.

This video shows a CSF clip on one of my radiators. The clip cannot be seated, the clip is open significantly more than parallel and significant movement in all directions is possible. It appears as though the grooves that retain the ends of the clip are not machined correctly. If you have a clip that looks like this, don't install the radiator as it will probably leak.

The OEM clips are heavier gauge than the CSF clips and they feel more secure when installed. However, on my current set of CSF radiators, I was only able to install OEM clips on 3 out of the 4 large connections. On the 4th the OEM clip plain would not fit. It was hard to tell whether then entire groove around the circumference was a bit too tight or if notches that hold the ends of the clip needed adjustment. I installed the CSF clip on this connection and it is holding. I measured the diameter of the OEM and CSF clip material. As I recall OEM was 1.9mm and CSF was 1.5mm. I didn't have any fancy strain gauges to test the tension, but I did have a partial gallon of antifreeze (5.4 lbs) to hang from them. The first picture is the OEM clip. Notice how the sides of the clip are parallel and ~2" apart. The second picture is the CSF clip. Notice how it opened up beyond parallel and the ends are ~2-3/8" apart.







The notches on the vent connections also required a bit of work. Notice in the video how when the clip is fully seated, the clip ends push out beyond the notches meant to capture them.

This video shows the clip fully seated after modifying the notches


This picture shows how when the clip is pushed into the fully seated position, the end of the clip extends beyond the notch that is meant to capture it.



This picture shows how the notches that capture the ends of the clip were modified up.




Now it is also possible that your core could have been damaged (either by the installer or during shipping). Have you isolated the leak?

New hoses are not required per se, but are not a bad idea as Porsche has updated them. If you are not replacing the hoses, it wouldn't be a bad idea to at least replace the o-rings.

I have had some tribulations with my radiators, but I will say Ravi (BlueDream996) has been on top of it and service after the problem has been top notch.

 

Hi Ted,

Thank you for the detailed feedback and videos of the issue.. We've recently sold out of turbo radiators, and isloated a few units out of our stock that did not meet our tolerance levels.. I'm also working with Luv2Rev on his issue.. We've sold well over 100 sets of these in the last year, and it seems to be a couple bad apples mixed in which have isolated..

As far as the clips go, we've started to machine the groove to the exact spec of the OEM, as well as supplying a higher guage clip.. the thickness of the clip from the OEM was .05mm and ours was .04mm..That's also being resovled..

When making 50,000 radiators a month, I wish they could all be perfect.. I'm also frustrated that these issues happened on our "golden child" models..

Thanks for all the feedback and being patient while we sorted things out..

 

I have picture on phone which shows upper hose giggling around in connection. With the above info it seems the solution would include
1. Having the current design and
2. New o-ring and hose...I'll try and post pictures from my phone which look just like the initial video
I appreciate Ravi' quick response and I'm looking forwards to him sending out the best example

 

Here are some pics


I must not have video rights but looks just like above moving in fitting...any help apprrciated

 

How do I make certain I get the most recent updates when I decide to order these from GMG?

 

We are currently sold out (new shipment to arrive next week).. Everything has been updated, and in-spec... Anything ordered from now on, will have no issues..

 

Awesome. Thanks.