Nissan GT-R going airborne at Nurburgring
#1
03-30-2015, 10:17 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London
Posts: 1,276
Rep Power: 86 
:-0. One spectator killed. RIP. I am always nervous about this kind of thing when going 200 mph in my car.
#2
03-30-2015, 02:51 PM
Fortunately an ordinary street car and a flat-bottomed GT3 racer are two completely different animals. At that place many cars -including mine- will be airborne, but usually in decent manner.
A quote from another forum:
"This is a function of accelerative capacity, speed capability, track topographical anomolies that provided excitement and challenge in the past but are capable of acting as "launching pads" for the ultra-quick cars that drive them today. This has been seen for decades, where Can Am cars at St. Jovite (Mont Tremblant) and Road Atlanta have flipped in the Sixties and Seventies, a Porsche GT1 car at Road Atlanta in the Nineties, two Mercedes CLK-LM cars at the crest at the end of the Mulsanne straight at LeMans in the same weekend. Some track "re-dos" incorporate shaving down these crests, like at Mont Tremblant and at Road Atlanta, to prevent this sort of thing.
When these very quick cars that have tons of traction (downforce at the back to propel them forward) crest a section of road that causes the front to get "light," the ample forward thrust causes the lift off to continue and can continue to "blow over," which is what happened in this case, it appears.
I don't think it's a design flaw, I think it's a legacy of older tracks that were made for cars that did not have this performance capability. When the old cars "jumped," they lost traction on both ends, got light in the steering and as long as the wheel was straight when landing, all was usually well. The cars of today, with wings and ways to push down in the back, as soon as the front splitter goes above the boundary layer of air just above the surface of the track, the angle of attack makes the splitter (and the whole bottom of the car) a winged element and the car takes flight. It often happens SO fast that the driver never lifts and the wheels continue to drive the car forward, steepening the angle of attack upward. Then, the car takes off...
Now, this incident supposedly happened at Flugplatz, which is a serious and significant "hump" at a particularly busy section of the track. "
A quote from another forum:
"This is a function of accelerative capacity, speed capability, track topographical anomolies that provided excitement and challenge in the past but are capable of acting as "launching pads" for the ultra-quick cars that drive them today. This has been seen for decades, where Can Am cars at St. Jovite (Mont Tremblant) and Road Atlanta have flipped in the Sixties and Seventies, a Porsche GT1 car at Road Atlanta in the Nineties, two Mercedes CLK-LM cars at the crest at the end of the Mulsanne straight at LeMans in the same weekend. Some track "re-dos" incorporate shaving down these crests, like at Mont Tremblant and at Road Atlanta, to prevent this sort of thing.
When these very quick cars that have tons of traction (downforce at the back to propel them forward) crest a section of road that causes the front to get "light," the ample forward thrust causes the lift off to continue and can continue to "blow over," which is what happened in this case, it appears.
I don't think it's a design flaw, I think it's a legacy of older tracks that were made for cars that did not have this performance capability. When the old cars "jumped," they lost traction on both ends, got light in the steering and as long as the wheel was straight when landing, all was usually well. The cars of today, with wings and ways to push down in the back, as soon as the front splitter goes above the boundary layer of air just above the surface of the track, the angle of attack makes the splitter (and the whole bottom of the car) a winged element and the car takes flight. It often happens SO fast that the driver never lifts and the wheels continue to drive the car forward, steepening the angle of attack upward. Then, the car takes off...
Now, this incident supposedly happened at Flugplatz, which is a serious and significant "hump" at a particularly busy section of the track. "
#3
03-30-2015, 06:03 PM
I'm told that the name roughly translates to "airport" and is known for cars taking off, part of the reason why people watch that corner.
There's a pretty awesome vid out there of a driver having this happen and catching it with a different car and a different track that had runoff area - which this one clearly doesn't.
There's a pretty awesome vid out there of a driver having this happen and catching it with a different car and a different track that had runoff area - which this one clearly doesn't.
#4
03-31-2015, 11:16 AM
Not roughly. Exactly. A "Flugplatz" is an airport - or airfield if you want to start splitting hairs. 
I don't think it's a design flaw, I think it's a legacy of older tracks that were made for cars that did not have this performance capability. When the old cars "jumped," they lost traction on both ends, got light in the steering and as long as the wheel was straight when landing, all was usually well. The cars of today, with wings and ways to push down in the back, as soon as the front splitter goes above the boundary layer of air just above the surface of the track, the angle of attack makes the splitter (and the whole bottom of the car) a winged element and the car takes flight. It often happens SO fast that the driver never lifts and the wheels continue to drive the car forward, steepening the angle of attack upward. Then, the car takes off
Actually, for me road racing is exactly that. And that means on road surfaces that more or less reflect real life. The Nürburgring was built with this in mind - and it is one of the reasons a 'Ring time is still an absolute performance benchmark for street legal cars. Iirc, Norbert Haug, director of racing at Mercedes referred to the aerodynamics of the CLKs as "flawed" after the LeMans incidents (and when MB withdrew from the race).
The Nürburgring obviously does not have the run-off areas to run today's sports prototypes or formula cars - but wouldn't it be cool...
I don't think it's a design flaw, I think it's a legacy of older tracks that were made for cars that did not have this performance capability. When the old cars "jumped," they lost traction on both ends, got light in the steering and as long as the wheel was straight when landing, all was usually well. The cars of today, with wings and ways to push down in the back, as soon as the front splitter goes above the boundary layer of air just above the surface of the track, the angle of attack makes the splitter (and the whole bottom of the car) a winged element and the car takes flight. It often happens SO fast that the driver never lifts and the wheels continue to drive the car forward, steepening the angle of attack upward. Then, the car takes off
The Nürburgring obviously does not have the run-off areas to run today's sports prototypes or formula cars - but wouldn't it be cool...
#5
03-31-2015, 11:09 PM
Heh, I'd been to.d it translated to that but not speaking the language I wasn't willing to speak authoritatively on the subject 
I agree the Ring is a unique track though I've never raced it. I know a little about it and how it's operated and I'd hate to see it changed too drastically not least because I'm not sure they could afford to do so and it might be lost forever 
Hopefully something can be done that's not too drastic that will maintain safety for all involved!
I agree the Ring is a unique track though I've never raced it. I know a little about it and how it's operated and I'd hate to see it changed too drastically not least because I'm not sure they could afford to do so and it might be lost forever Hopefully something can be done that's not too drastic that will maintain safety for all involved!
#6
04-01-2015, 02:36 AM
All GT3 Cars got banned for now by the DMSB.
Old school NOS drivers stop hitting the gaspedal before the jump. If the young driver, who is a highly talented professional, did it, we do not know yet. Its certain, that he learned the track by playstation and had his first real laps during the race.
You can lift all 4 tires with a street car there with ease.
In 2 weeks is the next VLN race event...probably without the Gt3 cars....
Old school NOS drivers stop hitting the gaspedal before the jump. If the young driver, who is a highly talented professional, did it, we do not know yet. Its certain, that he learned the track by playstation and had his first real laps during the race.
You can lift all 4 tires with a street car there with ease.
In 2 weeks is the next VLN race event...probably without the Gt3 cars....
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
vividracing
991 Turbo
23
10-02-2015 02:23 PM