JIC just released their new line of titanium exhausts for the Porsche C2/C4, GT3, and Turbo cars. We have used JIC for years and are one of their largest distributors. Their titanium systems are ultra light, great sound, build quality and more. I have personally used their exhausts on my cars and the titanium has always been number one. They tend to save you over 50% in weight compared to stock. Just wanted to post up to get some feedback on what you think.
Looking for product testers to do some before and after dyno numbers and photography. Price will be taken care of. If interested, contact me.
Dan
dan@vividracing.com
4809663040 x222

 

back pressure test would tell me if its a go or not...
I personally used fabspeed with 100 cell cats.. then dumped the exhaust and just went streight pipe with 100 cell cats.

 

Hey Markski - do you recall the backpressure on the Fabspeed sport?

 

yes.... it was 1 to 1... just as if u did streight pipes.... and I did that as well...

 

i'd be afraid of it falling apart, going through great pains to get it replaced, and having it fall apart again in 2 wks.


sorry, never doing JIC again.

- chuck

 

Titanium will break down quickly with heat. Do a search on what temperatures turbos make and what that will do to titanium and the welds. NA cars yes, Turbo cars no. Bad idea. It will not last. I will be more than happy to test it on our car and our dyno though if you need some numbers. Although the last time we talked to Ben about this he did not want it tested. I thought this was peculiar

 

JIC has done tests in Japan on cars. They dont give information out like that sometimes. Jon at JIC keeps it to himself. Thats why we are looking to do our own tests. We have been doing JIC extensively on cars for about 4 years. We have never had a break down in any component. We have had to have coilovers rebuilt after severe use, but that is like most any coilover.

As far as exhausts, titanium does not fall apart. We have been running the JIC titanium systems on high horsepower EVO and STI for years. Pushing 400-500 whp. Nothing ever happens to the system. Even the amount of heat the turbos on a 996 will put out because of their location will not affect the welds or material. FYI Ben is no longer with JIC, he is in China now. Talk to Yukio at JIC.

 

Doing some searching on Titanium, for those interested -

Most EGT temps on turbo cars at full race ripping driving is about 800-900 degrees celcius or 1500F+ if tuned properly. If the car is running lean dangerously then temps will be higher and manifold destruction is possible. Rich is always good... Daily driving you are probably at about 600-700 degrees celcius on the highway. Most of you drive that.

Now Titanium is lighter, stronger, more resistant to corrosion then stainless steel is. Most people dont use Titanium because of cost. We have manufactured several parts from Titanium and it is apparent that. But as I said early, a turbo is a turbo, a car is a car, and titanium is titanium. The titanium exhausts hold up extremely well in daily driving to FULL RACING scenarios as we have tested.

http://www.webelements.com/webelemen...t/Ti/heat.html

Melting point - 1668 °C (3034 °F) If your car is nearing that, we need to talk

http://www.materialsengineer.com/E-Titanium.htm
"Titanium is used in applications requiring somewhat elevated temperatures"

When welding titanium, using the proper procedure, the welds will hold up no problem.
http://www.timet.com/fab-p27.htm

Here is some more data on Titanium welding -
Titanium alpha alloys can be strengthened only by cold work (called also strain hardening) (not by heat treatment), are weldable in annealed condition and retain their strength at high temperature.
http://www.used-robots.com/titanium-...automation.htm

So I guess with this saying, if welded properly in the proper conditions, the material and welds will hold up better and stronger then regular stainless steel. You get what you pay for!

 

No one is debating if titanium is strong or light. What we are debating is why does it not hold up. I have seen my fair share of titanium exhaust for Porsche turbos and in every single case the welds have cracked which cause the metal to split. You will not melt as you describe the metal. It is structural failure. Again, this is not speculation, this is data calculated by many people in the field in the Porsche industry including myself.

You can not compare your EVOs nor the STis to the average EGT of a 996TT. You can always find what you want to support your position on the net. Nothing ever replaces practical and actual knowledge from experience.

The truth is the military will not use it either. If you want to make one hell of an exhaust you use Inconel. Why don’t more use this? Cost. Makes titanium look cheap. The military uses Inconel instead of titanium. 321 has titanium in it to create versatility and cut cost. 308 and 304 do not have any in it. This is why 321 is always the requested SS to use because if offers the best of both worlds.

 

I ran all of these traps this Fall when I was offered a Kreis-sieg Ti exhaust at a great price. I consulted with industry guys and Metalurgical Engineer friends of mine. The consensus was Ti can be used for periodic track days, but not on a daily driver where the stress plus heat will split the thin material.

Also, the tubing looks REALLY small on that picture

 

not sure if that is the production model of the jic echuast i was there a few weeks ago and jon from jic showed me the ti exhaust they have, he's been using the exhaust for a whiel now and no issues he has about 500+ hp on his 996turbo.. im on the list to get one.. im still deicing on if im gettingti or stainless steel .. im more concerned about the price rather than the weight savings i cannot se emy self spending 5k for an exhaust im lke marksi i think 3k is already toomuch imho...


the turbo exhuast pictured aboe is a 2 piece design i saw it a bout a year ago during its development stages...

pics i took a few weeks ago - one piece design



the one piece design the tips are different

 

What is the EGT of a 996TT on the street cruising at 70mph. What about after 5 laps of road racing. I think you will find the same or in the same range.

Also as far as data, titanium welding must be heated up to 3000 degrees before the weld do its job. Nobody is getting their exhausts to 3000 degrees.

Pics look good! Jon at JIC knows his stuff. Japanese Tuner with Porsche skills. Got to love the products!

 

Also you are right that experience does help. So since you have not used a JIC Titanium exhaust system, it is hard for you to judge. I personally run them...

 

I personally like JIC's products. Specifically their suspension. As for their exhaust I have no experience with it. From the pictures it looks pretty good. My only concern is not soo much the heat as much as the vibration. From what I hear that seems to be the bigger problem with titanium. The metal is soo strong and not forgiving that it cracks under vibration. Shark 01 brought up a good point. Will it work for a daily driver? How about after 50K miles and most importantly will JIC warranty cracks? If they do warranty cracks we have nothing to lose except weight and should give it a try.

 

LOL, well to be honest I was modifying Porsches since you were about 6, Dan. If you do so much with your 996TT then you should know what the average EGT is at cruise on the TT doing 70-75MPH. Besides I thought you had a 996, not a TT. I can’t keep your post straight.

I can tell you that exact number and I can tell you that you are way off in your guesstimate. I can also confirm trying to compare EGT to an EVO or STi is not going to fly. I have played and owned way to many turbo Z cars and can tell you that the TT is always going to be much different.

Lastly, having the cat on top of the turbo and the muffler attached in this short loop then attached to the motor directly will always cause more stress on the welds and the heat will always be higher. 321 has a hard time with the welds and the welds on 321 is stronger than straight Titanium. Remember the 321 has some titanium in it but added 322 for long term flexibility and strength from typical stress. While you indicate I have no experience with JIC you are only partly right. I have sold over 30 sets for Porsches and ran them on my car in Vegas for the shootout a year ago. So when it comes to the wonderful quality that JIC I am all to hip on what they can and can’t do. In fact I got a call from them today on several issues they had been working on. I will leave it at that. Bottom line is if you had this great vast knowledge of this exhaust you would have not posted for help in data acquisition. I personally have tested hundreds of exhaust. Hell, here is a trivia question. What turbos did Porsche MotorSports run with Titanium exhaust?

You are missing the point on the cracking. Melting point is far different than structural fatigue and welds that are good, but not AS quality. Again, the military will not even use Titanium on their TC motors and resorted to Inconel. Again, read what you want on the internet, you can always find some knucklehead toting what supports your view. Unless you have seen these things first hand it is like trying to explain what turkey day dinner smells like…not a chance in hell.

I
like JIC but and use them but when requested an exhaust to put through the wringer Ben dynoed the offer and said they do not want to risk any issue. So unless they want to put a 100K mile warrnty on the muffler you are going to have fun with this one.

Lastly, Jon is an alright guy but by no means does his own work. Ken and Dan made his drift car what it is….