Took the GT2 to the dragstrip last night
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Originally Posted by RennTechV12
If I failed to post a congratulatory note I apologize, I think I remember posting one when you made your initial dyno pulls. I could care less what people choose to mod their cars with. I love anything fast; 911s, Vipers, Vettes, Evos, Bikes, etc. I think the time has come to bury the hatchet and stop the infueding among our Porsche Loving bretheren. Why don't we concentrate our collective energies against the real enemy...DOMESTICS
Originally Posted by RennTechV12
Power wise there is no comparison, obviously the car with 120 more RWHP is faster. My TT was stage4 before it was a GT700, I thought everyone knew that, sorry if it was confusing. By better performance with the GT2, I was referring to the feel of the car, it's nimbleness,tightness, handling and the RWD component.
Originally Posted by RennTechV12
If I failed to post a congratulatory note I apologize, I think I remember posting one when you made your initial dyno pulls. I could care less what people choose to mod their cars with. I love anything fast; 911s, Vipers, Vettes, Evos, Bikes, etc. I think the time has come to bury the hatchet and stop the infueding among our Porsche Loving bretheren. Why don't we concentrate our collective energies against the real enemy...DOMESTICS
Last edited by iLLM3; Jul 3, 2006 at 02:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by iLLM3
Scott ran 11.6 at 126mph with i believe a 1.8-1.9 60 foot which is incredible. He had the Hammer stg 2 package with evo v flow, on 19" HRE's and street tires
FWIW, I have immense respect for Todd Knighton and Protomotive, and I think they build some superlative cars. In contrast to one of more of his customers, Knighton is a gentlemen and he has been incredibly generous in terms of sharing his wisdom and experience with me. Thank you Todd K.
Craig
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Originally Posted by Divexxtreme
Thanks. And I completely agree that the infighting needs to stop. I too, love anything fast.
Craig
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Jesus Christ people... time to get a life.
These arguments inevitably lead nowhere, as I have learned on these online boards after several years.
Less arguing, and more time driving!
Maybe some of you will follow my path and realize that drag racing and freeway pulls get old... so maybe some will buy a GT3 (or GT2) and focus on what Porsche is really about-- the race track.
I leave the straight line **** to rice rocket crowd in their Civics, Skylines and Supras.
These arguments inevitably lead nowhere, as I have learned on these online boards after several years.
Less arguing, and more time driving!
Maybe some of you will follow my path and realize that drag racing and freeway pulls get old... so maybe some will buy a GT3 (or GT2) and focus on what Porsche is really about-- the race track.
I leave the straight line **** to rice rocket crowd in their Civics, Skylines and Supras.
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Originally Posted by Hamann7
Jesus Christ people... time to get a life.
These arguments inevitably lead nowhere, as I have learned on these online boards after several years.
Less arguing, and more time driving!
Maybe some of you will follow my path and realize that drag racing and freeway pulls get old... so maybe some will buy a GT3 (or GT2) and focus on what Porsche is really about-- the race track.
I leave the straight line **** to rice rocket crowd in their Civics, Skylines and Supras.
These arguments inevitably lead nowhere, as I have learned on these online boards after several years.
Less arguing, and more time driving!
Maybe some of you will follow my path and realize that drag racing and freeway pulls get old... so maybe some will buy a GT3 (or GT2) and focus on what Porsche is really about-- the race track.
I leave the straight line **** to rice rocket crowd in their Civics, Skylines and Supras.
But with a GT2 you can do all of those
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Originally Posted by RennTechV12
But with a GT2 you can do all of those
If you can use all the power in the GT700 to your advantage around a racetrack, then you are truly talented, and should probably be racing professionally in ALMS.
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Originally Posted by Hamann7
I personally think a GT3 is better for most tracks... as it takes much work and skill to make a GT2 faster around the corners. Certainly possible, just not easy.
If you can use all the power in the GT700 to your advantage around a racetrack, then you are truly talented, and should probably be racing professionally in ALMS.
If you can use all the power in the GT700 to your advantage around a racetrack, then you are truly talented, and should probably be racing professionally in ALMS.
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Originally Posted by Craig
Is that true Scott? You ran an 11.6 at 126 in a Stage 2 996TT? FWIW, EVOMS charges $7,100 for the Stage 2 package (including the V-Flow). Sounds like a damn good deal considering that a lighter, 2wd GT2 with a $4500 Protomotive package ran an 11.98 at 122. I wonder what Scott's time would have been in his Stage 2 996TT with 300 less pounds and 2wd?
Also, FWIW, I saved 130 lbs when I converted from AWD to RWD.
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Originally Posted by Craig
Amen brutha!!! You and I are a perfect example. Despite using different tuners, we continue to share information with each other, both here and offline, and we continue to compliment the other on the evolution of our cars.
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Craig,
You have obviously taken this to personal levels, I honestly feel sorry for your intellect and how far you can go to feel better about yourself. Just re-read what you wrote a few days down the road and if you still have some neurones left in your brain, you might even feel ashamed.
How is that car of yours running anyway?
Renntech
Just to clarify, the price I quoted was from EVOMS website but from the TT page by mistake, the GT2 does indeed say the kit costs $9900, it was not some sort of machiavelic manipulation.
And I agree, that Greddy boost controller is ugly like sin.
You have obviously taken this to personal levels, I honestly feel sorry for your intellect and how far you can go to feel better about yourself. Just re-read what you wrote a few days down the road and if you still have some neurones left in your brain, you might even feel ashamed.
How is that car of yours running anyway?
Renntech
Just to clarify, the price I quoted was from EVOMS website but from the TT page by mistake, the GT2 does indeed say the kit costs $9900, it was not some sort of machiavelic manipulation.
And I agree, that Greddy boost controller is ugly like sin.
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Jean,
I suspect I am guilty of taking things a bit too personally, and for that I apologize. On the other hand, you don’t see me posting disparaging remarks about Protomotive. When an EVO car runs a good time, I don’t immediately compare it to cars developed by Protomotive or any other tuner, and boast how the other packages are inferior and/or cost more. Instead, I commend the car and its tuner. I have no desire to exalt one tuner over the other, nor to prove the superiority of any particular tuner. Instead, I appreciate the workmanship of many tuners, including those I elected not to use.
The irony in all of this is that I know a thimble full about cars compared to you. I am a beginner, going on novice. I have little to offer in terms of technical knowledge. In contrast, you understand the intimate details of virtually every system in our cars, and you have an incredible wealth of knowledge, experience and technical details to share. When you share your wisdom, experience and technical knowledge without denigrating any particular car or tuner, I and others read with great interest (to the extent that I actually understand, which admittedly, I often do not). Sometimes I wish you were present so that I could ask follow-up questions and learn more. You are a tremendous resource for 6Speed and, notwithstanding my aggressive tone, I am genuinely grateful that you are here, as I learn a lot from you.
In short, I have immense respect for you (whereas I’m confident that you have zero respect for me). Nevertheless, your message would be received far better (at least by me) if you refrained from making comments, either expressly or by inference, that EVOMS, IA or other US tuners are unworthy.
As to my car, you know exactly how it is doing (I’m surprised it took you this long to go there . . . Markski could not wait to give you the news . . . thanks Todd K. and Markski, this is exactly what I was talking about with both of you . . . DISCRETION). Who owes who an apology now Jean? Markski?
Respectfully,
Craig
I suspect I am guilty of taking things a bit too personally, and for that I apologize. On the other hand, you don’t see me posting disparaging remarks about Protomotive. When an EVO car runs a good time, I don’t immediately compare it to cars developed by Protomotive or any other tuner, and boast how the other packages are inferior and/or cost more. Instead, I commend the car and its tuner. I have no desire to exalt one tuner over the other, nor to prove the superiority of any particular tuner. Instead, I appreciate the workmanship of many tuners, including those I elected not to use.
The irony in all of this is that I know a thimble full about cars compared to you. I am a beginner, going on novice. I have little to offer in terms of technical knowledge. In contrast, you understand the intimate details of virtually every system in our cars, and you have an incredible wealth of knowledge, experience and technical details to share. When you share your wisdom, experience and technical knowledge without denigrating any particular car or tuner, I and others read with great interest (to the extent that I actually understand, which admittedly, I often do not). Sometimes I wish you were present so that I could ask follow-up questions and learn more. You are a tremendous resource for 6Speed and, notwithstanding my aggressive tone, I am genuinely grateful that you are here, as I learn a lot from you.
In short, I have immense respect for you (whereas I’m confident that you have zero respect for me). Nevertheless, your message would be received far better (at least by me) if you refrained from making comments, either expressly or by inference, that EVOMS, IA or other US tuners are unworthy.
As to my car, you know exactly how it is doing (I’m surprised it took you this long to go there . . . Markski could not wait to give you the news . . . thanks Todd K. and Markski, this is exactly what I was talking about with both of you . . . DISCRETION). Who owes who an apology now Jean? Markski?
Respectfully,
Craig
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Originally Posted by Craig
Ditto and +1. Joe has always been a class act as it relates to other people's cars.
Scott, you are not one of the guys that I perceive as having a bug up his *** for EVOMS. Rather, you are generally very complimentary of all cars.
It is my general impression that EVOMS customers are respectful of Protomotive customers, and quick to compliment the achievements of Protomotive cars, whereas a couple of Protomotive customers frequently criticize EVOMS and regularly dispute the performance attributes of cars tuned by EVOMS. This phenomenon is much more open and blatant on Rennlist.
Jean was so desirous of furthering this agenda that he took a ¼ mile time and a 60-130 mph time for two completely different cars, and somehow extrapolated 95-122 mph times from both, then trumpeted his conclusion that the Protomotive car is faster and cheaper than a EVOMS Stage 4. . . . he did this in a thread that has NOTHING to do with EVOMS Stage IV cars. Interestingly, Jean ignored the prior posts of his Protomotive brethren, Markski, stating that Stage IV cars (EVOMS included) consistently run +/- 11.5, which is considerably faster than the lighter, 2wd Protomotive tuned GT2 than ran a 11.98 (all times uncorrected). Jean likewise ignored the 126 trap speed recorded by Joe’s EVOMS Stage IV, which is considerably higher than the lighter, 2wd Protomotive tuned GT2. Jean likewise ignored the 11.7-11.9 times that have been posted by EVOMS Stage 2 cars, which are also faster than the 11.98 recorded by the lighter, 2wd Protomotive tuned GT2 (didn’t Scott run an 11.7 ish time in a Stage 2 car). Instead, Jean extrapolated a 95-122 mph time that better served to advance his cause.
On the cost issue, Jean disingenuously used the $14,300 price charged by EVOMS for a 996TT Stage IV, then compared it to the $4500 price ostensibly charged by Protomotive for the subject GT2 (which already has the K24 turbos). Jean conveniently ignored that EVOMS charges $4500 LESS for a GT2 Stage IV: (http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/Vie...B0979C88F40%7D ). Again, Jean sought to create the largest disparity possible in order to advance his agenda, even though the accurate pricing was available on the same website he researched.
I recognize that comparisons are inevitable and sometimes useful. However, when making such comparisons, one should use ACCURATE data and compare apples to apples, rather than bending over backwards to construct a comparison that is obviously designed to advance a blatant bias. Moreover, I personally don’t think it is productive for certain people to constantly seek to undermine the efforts of other tuners, in threads that don’t lend themselves to such comparisons.
Craig
Scott, you are not one of the guys that I perceive as having a bug up his *** for EVOMS. Rather, you are generally very complimentary of all cars.
It is my general impression that EVOMS customers are respectful of Protomotive customers, and quick to compliment the achievements of Protomotive cars, whereas a couple of Protomotive customers frequently criticize EVOMS and regularly dispute the performance attributes of cars tuned by EVOMS. This phenomenon is much more open and blatant on Rennlist.
Jean was so desirous of furthering this agenda that he took a ¼ mile time and a 60-130 mph time for two completely different cars, and somehow extrapolated 95-122 mph times from both, then trumpeted his conclusion that the Protomotive car is faster and cheaper than a EVOMS Stage 4. . . . he did this in a thread that has NOTHING to do with EVOMS Stage IV cars. Interestingly, Jean ignored the prior posts of his Protomotive brethren, Markski, stating that Stage IV cars (EVOMS included) consistently run +/- 11.5, which is considerably faster than the lighter, 2wd Protomotive tuned GT2 than ran a 11.98 (all times uncorrected). Jean likewise ignored the 126 trap speed recorded by Joe’s EVOMS Stage IV, which is considerably higher than the lighter, 2wd Protomotive tuned GT2. Jean likewise ignored the 11.7-11.9 times that have been posted by EVOMS Stage 2 cars, which are also faster than the 11.98 recorded by the lighter, 2wd Protomotive tuned GT2 (didn’t Scott run an 11.7 ish time in a Stage 2 car). Instead, Jean extrapolated a 95-122 mph time that better served to advance his cause.
On the cost issue, Jean disingenuously used the $14,300 price charged by EVOMS for a 996TT Stage IV, then compared it to the $4500 price ostensibly charged by Protomotive for the subject GT2 (which already has the K24 turbos). Jean conveniently ignored that EVOMS charges $4500 LESS for a GT2 Stage IV: (http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/Vie...B0979C88F40%7D ). Again, Jean sought to create the largest disparity possible in order to advance his agenda, even though the accurate pricing was available on the same website he researched.
I recognize that comparisons are inevitable and sometimes useful. However, when making such comparisons, one should use ACCURATE data and compare apples to apples, rather than bending over backwards to construct a comparison that is obviously designed to advance a blatant bias. Moreover, I personally don’t think it is productive for certain people to constantly seek to undermine the efforts of other tuners, in threads that don’t lend themselves to such comparisons.
Craig
Stage IV by Evoms almost $10k, and nothing done to my turbos, Protomotive "stage IV" $4500 with my K24's done with 18G guts.
Bottom line we all have tuners we like and we use and that will always be the case.
Bajo
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I watch all (well a lot) of posts that are most interesting. There is vastly different levels of technical competence and understanding represented on this(and other) forums--- and I love them all.Discussion generally brings out interesting pieces of information and experiences that enriches all of us and I for one are gratefull for it .Historically it would have taken years to hear and learn many of the things that appear hear every 5 minutes,so the learning curve is accelerated as the exposure to important info is mixed with the inconsequential. What is dissappointing is when in the course of discussion the credibility of posters is questioned.( I emphasize this comment is not directed in any particular direction)The information in this thread was initially polite and couteous and deteriorated.I for for one would not want ANYONE to cease posting because it had become tedious defending themselves.We would all be losing if that happened.Equally it is man's nature to rationalize one's own decisions and choices -- it does not make somebody else's decision wrong-- just different.
I do not know anyone personally on this board, but I have been in contact with many-- both private and company people-- and have felt humbled by the answers and help given to a stranger.I would hate any of that to change .
I do not know anyone personally on this board, but I have been in contact with many-- both private and company people-- and have felt humbled by the answers and help given to a stranger.I would hate any of that to change .
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I have no agenda against EVOMS nor anyone else (especially not Stephen!), I present the data and facts the way I have them, and try to give my perspective on things that can, of course, be mistaken. I said earlier in the post that I will be more than happy to look at any numbers presented to me to compare, I was not selective at all, or at least not intentionally.
I generally tend to dispute easy HP claims that are unproven by performance numbers, or weird dyno charts, or too much marketing and not scientific evidence for a certain product, and this is not EVOMS specific at all, it is just that there are so many osts related to their products that one picks up easier on certain issues . I understand it creates uneasiness for some.
For full disclosure, I have never ever sold to anyone any Protomotive product, or sent any customers to them directly, I don't trade, I have my own business priorities, my only relation with this car business is from a driver's and customer POV who did his first car race 20 years ago..
We should always remember we are "the customer" who are paying, and we need to know what are the choices out there.
Just to clarify once more, I did not raise the issue of Stage 4 out of the blue, see post number 10 here, I was just answering the post.
Thank you for your words, and be sure that you have my utmost respect as well, more so now. Apologies for my last personal post as well.
I am not sure in your last sentence what you would like me to apologize for, I hope I addressed it above.
Cheers.
I generally tend to dispute easy HP claims that are unproven by performance numbers, or weird dyno charts, or too much marketing and not scientific evidence for a certain product, and this is not EVOMS specific at all, it is just that there are so many osts related to their products that one picks up easier on certain issues . I understand it creates uneasiness for some.
For full disclosure, I have never ever sold to anyone any Protomotive product, or sent any customers to them directly, I don't trade, I have my own business priorities, my only relation with this car business is from a driver's and customer POV who did his first car race 20 years ago..
We should always remember we are "the customer" who are paying, and we need to know what are the choices out there.
Just to clarify once more, I did not raise the issue of Stage 4 out of the blue, see post number 10 here, I was just answering the post.
Thank you for your words, and be sure that you have my utmost respect as well, more so now. Apologies for my last personal post as well.
I am not sure in your last sentence what you would like me to apologize for, I hope I addressed it above.
Cheers.