There was a thread started here earlier today which began as a sale for HRE wheels. I figured I'd take the opportunity to ask a couple of questions that had been floating around in the back of my mind recently. The thread has since been moved to the Vendor section. Unfortunatley my questions weren't really answered before the move and I thought the discussion might die there. So I am copying my original post below.

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This thread is not in the for sale section so I figure it's alright to ask some questions like these. I am really weak in my understanding of wheels so I need help with this. What makes HRE wheels and others like them worth 50 to 80% more than some off brand wheel? I can't tell much of a difference in looks based on pictures. Do the cheap ones break or something? I'd be surpirsed at that since I've never had a broken wheel my whole life. Is is weight? I understand that if you track your car, but if not? Do they look that much better in person?

What make them so desirable to so many people? I see a lot of sneering at no name brands. I'm probably going to get flamed but I'm not trying to stir things up, just trying to understand.

 

-lots of things we buy for our cars including the car itself is not entirely based on sound reason and logic

-these are luxury items/toys

-hre wheels and other custom wheels are one-offs and labor intensive

-factory wheels are all way conservative in width/offset/diameter

at the end of the day, they're as much a product of function as they are form. think about it. look for other examples of just irrational purchases... chicks with their purses, luggage.... dudes with their watches....

in my case, even if a ferrari 430 stepped into my garage i wouldn't go gonzo over it until i got a chance to lower it on a set of say HRE 590Rs dished out.

if you want more function go for some motorsport R&D backed BBS LMs, RGRs, Fikse FM10s, chromas etc.

there are only a handful of aftermarket wheel manufacturers that i would buy from. i'd say 90% of the aftermarket wheels i see on even 911s is junk.

 

thanks. That was one of the most honest replies I have heard.

 

You often need to look at the method of manufacture to understand the cost difference.

Often cheap wheels are "cast" and many of the very best wheels (read expensive) are "forged".

He is a primer on some of the differences and what they mean

http://www.esi-group.com/products/ca...ips/eTip16.pdf

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/te...ide/index.html

http://www.motegiracing.com/techzone...ame=wheeltech5

 

While not an expert, here is what happened with my cheap 'winter rims' that I just put on my Audi A4 wagon:
Great deal off the internet. Cheap and lightweight 18" R8 replica rims... no name brand.
My wife hits a pothole at night (at speed).
Front rim breaks apart: rubber comes off rim!
Rear rims cracks and tire deflates. And there is only one spare...

Now, I am not a metallurgical expert, but from my experience with BMW, Audi and Porsche OEM rims is this probably wouldn't have happened (having hit a few things on the road over the years).

So now I am a little leery of the 'cheap and nasty' even for the basics of safety, let alone for aesthetics.

From what I understand, the cheap rims may be brittle (which is a weakness)... or on the other hand, may be strong but heavy and therefore a compromise in performance (excess rotating mass).

 

One important thing to remember in these wheel discussions is what came on your car. The 996 came with cast wheels. Forged wheels are stronger and lighter but that, most likely, doesnt make any difference to a street driver.

There are not many wheel choices for a Porsche compared to other cars (Japanese cars). Many of the wheels you find for the Porsche are forged and expensive.

The custom offsets is really what makes to wheels look great (IMHO)

Try to stay with a name brand wheel or a wheel that has feedback on 6speed. I dont think I would go as far to say 90% of the wheels are junk. I think you want to find a wheel that is constructed as well as stocj wheels or better.

My .02

 

OK, now we've gotten somewhere. Ben spoke about the emotional side of it, which I totally get; Ray pointed to some simple technical explanations of forged versus cast wheels and why forged is more costly. These two things together can explain the differences in price.

Next question, can someone explain the advantage of multi-piece wheels versus single piece?

 

They make your wallet lighter and thus your car lighter and therefore FASTER!!

 

OT but there is nothing wrong with a 430 with stocker wheels

wheels are like shoes... you get bored of them.. they come and they go.. some cost more and some cost less.. i've gone thru so many sets it definitely made my wallet a lot lighter

 

A multi-piece wheel offers several advantages over a 1 pc design.

• They are typically lighter since the rim sections are forged or spun aluminum.
• They are able to be customized to your car since the sizes of rim sections are variable (inner & outer w/ a 3 pc wheel).
• Custom finishes are easier to do since they can be done on each piece while disassembled.
• They look cool.
• Repairs are easier since you can just change a rim section rather than replace the entire wheel.

On the down side, they are more expensive, take longer to get (since they are custom built) and the thinner rim sections are sometimes more prone to getting bent.

 

i never said there's anything wrong with a stock 430 just that i wouldn't love it nearly as much as one that's modified (suspension, bigger aftermarket wheels). this is true for any car save for say... a pagani zonda F. i mean that's perfection right there by horacio!

-cast v. forged: again, for the sake of internet car forum dorks discussion, it's not entirely accurately to say forged is better than cast. look at all those dub+ wheels in DUB mag that say they're forged... not all forging is equal. just because X wheel is forged and Y wheel is cast doesn't make X better/stronger/whatever than Y. yes, most of the top brand wheels like the BBS LMs, fikses, champion, OZ wheels are forged, but a wheel like the BBS CH is not. would i hesitate to buy a set of BBS CHs if that's the hot **** look i've always wanted? heck no. i'd run them all day to the bank.

-lightweight wheels: lighter isn't always necessarily better. it's weight v. rigidity. there was this japanese tuner article i ran into on some other forum and it explained the pluses/minuses of weight v. rigidity very clearly. under cornering and braking for example, a wheel that's very light at some point sacrifices rigidity and the wheel actually deforms which inhibits the suspension system from putting all that contact patch to the ground... i'm not explaining it very well esp given that i'm a salesman not an engineer... but anyways, just food for thought to keep that in mind. i have a hard time believing, for example, that HRE with their 19" C90s at 20lbs for 19x12 set is going to be stronger than say a BBS multi piece wheel at 24lbs. if HRE can make a wheel that light, BBS surely could, but something tells me BBS's massive R&D budget based on motorsport experience dictates the weight/strength balance.

at the end of the day, though, the reason why i highlight form more so than function is because: 1) 99% of the dudes on the internet can't begin to tell you the TRUTH behind wheel manufacture; thereby 2) split hairs all day about the aesthetic which is a matter of opinion which makes the discussion much more substantive (hehe) than pretending to be math/science wheel guy nerds.

anyways, for me, i can count on one hand the wheels i would run on the 911 or any sporty car. all of them are made by reputable wheel houses and just as important, look absolutely siq. just like the 911, it's all about holism. it's about the entire package. too many folks try to point to one or two features and try to say yea that's fuqin sweet when you need to demand the complete package of high caliber manufacture including.. MARKETING. HRE kicks **** in this dept.

 

"BBS's massive R&D budget based on motorsport experience dictates the weight/strength balance."

FYI - BBS filed bankruptcy last year and I think they got bought out by another company. I don't think they have such a massive R&D budget.

 

I have heard that an advantage of a 1pc versus a 3 pc is that a 3 pc is more likely to lose its air and require more frequent filling of air. 1 pc. wheels can also be forged, and can be as light as a 3pc as well. Maybe there have been technical advances in the 1pc wheel.

some high end companies have there newest product lines being one piece wheels only like HRE and iForged.

 

One piece wheel is actually stronger and lighter.
Most racing teams use 2 or 3 piece as they can change out individual parts of the wheel, which would be fully forged in their case. However, many 3 or 2 piece wheels that we buy, only have forged centers and cast outer rim.

Good quality high end rims are strong and light. Personally, I would not consider anything from HRE very high end, except maybe their C series and their new monoblock series. Champion and BBS make a far far superior product. I speak from experience.

 

+1, dont like their design as well, except the monoblocks. The multipiece wheels are nice and blingy, but talk to a well known tire shop and they'll tell you how they hate mounting tires on those wheels... and I cant blame them after seeing how it is designed.