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Old Jan 25, 2009 | 12:13 PM
  #16  
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After owning a Porsche for awhile now I would tell you first hand that I would pick a driven car (track or not) over a garage queen - these cars do not like to sit.

Minor stuff will seem just go wrong with the car every time i neglect to drive it for extended amount of time. And baby the car also doesn't help, its almost like the ECU forgets to correct air/fuel ratio at open throttle. a few hard run and the whole car would be normal again. I know there is no scientific explanation, but I can just tell you what I noticed.

with any other car if you drive it hard it seems like you are pushing it - with a Porsche unless you are just flat out abusing the vehicle, it never feels like you are pushing the limit of the hardware, only your skills.
 
Old Jan 26, 2009 | 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by C70Pete
DON"T TOUCH a TRACK CAR!

sure everybody meticulously maintains them... brakes... oil. etc... but tracking is *very* hard on the car and magnifies the weak points of the 996 motor... oil starvation will not show its face immediately... but over time... cylinder scaring will not show its face over time... clutch and gearbox wear will happen... over time..

YOUR TIME and YOUR MONEY !!

whatever you do... do a "leakdown test" and a compression test... personally I wouldn't touch a car that was tracked extensively.
Oil starvation only really happens with cars driven on R's. I wouldn't worry about it too much as R's are not standard equipment for most cars which see track time. My first car was a track driven car (and did the 1 lap) and was mechanically perfect. Cosmetically, it had a few imperfections but man that car was built, fast and fun.

Typcially, as mentioned before, track guys tend to be much more obsessive about their cars and their condition. I would not fear it if it passes a PPI.
 
Old Jan 26, 2009 | 10:54 AM
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What do you mean street only? To fully appreciate these cars, the track is a requirement. Chances are the car has a lot more ability than the average driver. The first time at New Hampshire Speedway, the instructor kept yelling "more gas, more gas", I thought I was doing fine. I track about 4-6 times a year with the occasional autocross event. Like almost everyone says, if it passes a PPI and the maintenance documentation is there, chances are it is a solid car. Remember, a 99-01 has only 300 hp and it is hard to wail on the drive line with that power. I just passed 92,000 mi. I just put in the third clutch and first RMS and IMS. I would be leery of garage queens since the failures do tend to be on lower mileage cars. Either way, without a warranty, it is a crapshoot. Hunt around, get the best deal you can, there are a bunch of cars early 996's in and around twenties. And remember, happiness is a P-car at wide open throttle through the twisties.
James Greer
 
Old Jan 26, 2009 | 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Cajundaddy
I do trackside tech inspections at PCA events.

I would say that 90% of the cars I see are meticulously maintained with fresh fluids and brakes, good tires, and driven fast but not flogged. Another 5% are maintained and driven with less care but often far better than the average street car. I would not be afraid to own any of these.

The final 5% of the cars I see are frightening... loose lug nuts, CEL and Brake service lights glowing, tires corded, dark fluids, fluid leaks, etc. If they do pass tech inspection I see these same cars being flogged on the track with lots of overrevs, spins, off track excursions, flatspotted tires, boiled brake fluid etc. They are not maintained or driven with care. Do not buy one of these at any price.


because of that 5% (or even 10%) of cars mentioned above, i'd just pass on tracked cars. lots of other cars out there.

especially with porsches, its so easy to find low mileage mint cars. the ones that were never taken out in rain or snow, with low, but not too low mileage and well maintained. so many people buy them to own them, but dont drive them much.

i wouldnt buy any of my friends cars who track heavily. i passed on a few, that were really cheap and coming from friends.

one car i passed on, blew its motor not too long after the new buyer bought it. that car had seen a high number of track days, one lap of america, time trials etc... was going to be ridiculously cheap for me to buy, but i passed thank god.
 
Old Jan 26, 2009 | 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyM
one car i passed on, blew its motor not too long after the new buyer bought it. that car had seen a high number of track days, one lap of america, time trials etc... was going to be ridiculously cheap for me to buy, but i passed thank god.
This could have just as easily been a non-tracked car. As I mentioned before, it is a crap shoot whether you get a good engine or not. Just look at how many threads have blown engines with ZERO track time.

I still don't recommend a tracked car over a street car, or a garage queen over a track car. I DO recommend a proper PPI of ANY CAR.

The prior use should be reflected in the price.

-td
 
Old Jan 26, 2009 | 02:06 PM
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I would not buy a tracked car for the reasons that very rarely are we driving driving our cars at 100 plus miles an hour and running them close to the redline for an extended period of time.Anyone that tracks there car and tells you that they do not run it hard is not being truthful.. Buy an untracked car and do your own mods the way you want.
 
Old Jan 26, 2009 | 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by himself
This could have just as easily been a non-tracked car. As I mentioned before, it is a crap shoot whether you get a good engine or not. Just look at how many threads have blown engines with ZERO track time.

I still don't recommend a tracked car over a street car, or a garage queen over a track car. I DO recommend a proper PPI of ANY CAR.

The prior use should be reflected in the price.

-td
oh, that car wasn't a porsche. was a marque not known to blow motors as a matter of fact.

but regardless, yeah i agree PPI's are great and obviously a smart decision.


i'm just saying, i'd take a garage queen over a track car any day of the week. you have to pay a few hundred for a decent PPI, i wouldnt even bother PPI'ing a track car. I'd find a garage queen and PPI that.


but what do i know. i talk all this crap, but i have bought around 8 cars over the past 3 years, and i didnt PPI any of them. HA!
 
Old Jan 26, 2009 | 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by abcwoodworking
I would not buy a tracked car for the reasons that very rarely are we driving driving our cars at 100 plus miles an hour and running them close to the redline for an extended period of time.Anyone that tracks there car and tells you that they do not run it hard is not being truthful.. Buy an untracked car and do your own mods the way you want.
I've max'd at only 125 on track, yet I regularly hit that quite comfortably with no red line and no engine strain on the road (legally in EU). The car will happily cruise at 140 with plenty in reserve.
With so much choice at the moment it is purely down to each individual buyer but personally I would not rule out a car that has been on track.
 
Old Jan 26, 2009 | 03:16 PM
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i would buy a garage queen over a tracked car; depending on premium and depends what i want to use the car for. but i wouldn't automatically rule out a car that has been tracked. i tell you one thing though, i'm probably more thorough on tech inspection (done before each track event) than a typical ppi at the dealership. as long as the engine is stock, a track car is fine by me. well, depends on how many track miles it had as well. but once people start messing with the engine; turbos, supercharge, or what have you, then whether tracked or not, i'll skip it (IMO). you should only worry about suspension/brakes for a tracked car. it's either in tip-top shape better than stock form or it's been beatin' to death but these are consumables that can be easily replaced.

i track the car to enjoy it at my ability. if i wanted to beat on a car, i'd track something cheap.
 
Old Jan 27, 2009 | 01:07 AM
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I'd stay away from the track car unless all the parts on it are fairly new. What's great about track cars is you can probably buy it with all the mods installed and dialed in. It would probably be a lot more expensive for you to source all the parts and get them installed. That being said, the car may have been flogged at the track lap after lap after lap. It really just depends on the driver. Some guys fix up their cars so that they can go for a Sunday drive on the track. Other guys go ***** out, just because the car can handle it.
 
Old Jan 27, 2009 | 09:23 AM
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I track my car about 15 days a year, have put about 8K miles on it since I picked it up and I can tell you that I spend more money in preventative maintenance than any street-only driven owner puts in theirs.

Constant oil changes
Brake flushes
Rotors
pads
tires
suspension inspections
new clutch
lube jobs
waxes before and after track days

I am absolutely nutty because when I am going down the back straight at Road America at 140 the last thing I want to think about is a failure.

Now, I do know some owners of track-only cars that haven't washed them in years but have great maintenance.

So inspect, get a PPI but you have to know must of us track junkies are fanatical about their cars working properly.

As for oil starvation, I agree 996 motors have a bad reputation but it is easily solved with the X51 pan and BK thick gasket. I have 1 1/2 more quarts of oil than std.
 

Last edited by c2mojo; Jan 27, 2009 at 09:25 AM.
Old Jan 27, 2009 | 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by c2mojo
As for oil starvation, I agree 996 motors have a bad reputation but it is easily solved with the X51 pan and BK thick gasket. I have 1 1/2 more quarts of oil than std.
+1 on the X51. But be careful with the BK deep sump mod. It drops the bottom of the oil pan, but does NOT drop the oil pickups. This may actually amplify the oil starvation issue (or cause new ones) if you're oil level gets low. Of course, this may be an old wive's tale, but I removed my deep sump pan because of it [X51 remains].

-td
 
Old Jan 28, 2009 | 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by himself
+1 on the X51. But be careful with the BK deep sump mod. It drops the bottom of the oil pan, but does NOT drop the oil pickups. This may actually amplify the oil starvation issue (or cause new ones) if you're oil level gets low. Of course, this may be an old wive's tale, but I removed my deep sump pan because of it [X51 remains].

-td

You are right on about the pickups not be lowered but I figure that since I run about 2 quarts more and have the x51 that I should be safe unless I have a catastrofic failure i.e. broken pan

But for $450 I have peace of mind on the oil front, now if I was only as fast as a GT3....
 
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