Another IMS tale of woe...
#16
07-11-2017, 07:10 PM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nashville
Posts: 54
Rep Power: 22 
I am hoping to find the time to visit the tech in the next two days.
It was definitely drivable, no oil leak whatsoever, and not even idling roughly.
The Porsche technicians are pretty young, and I wonder if they have seen any of these. It's all recent model cars at that dealership.
Anyway, will let you know what information I will glean from my visit.
It is certainly a learning experience.
Should have got the Hans Mezger designed 996 turbo
It was definitely drivable, no oil leak whatsoever, and not even idling roughly.
The Porsche technicians are pretty young, and I wonder if they have seen any of these. It's all recent model cars at that dealership.
Anyway, will let you know what information I will glean from my visit.
It is certainly a learning experience.
Should have got the Hans Mezger designed 996 turbo
#17
07-12-2017, 01:37 PM
I am hoping to find the time to visit the tech in the next two days.
It was definitely drivable, no oil leak whatsoever, and not even idling roughly.
The Porsche technicians are pretty young, and I wonder if they have seen any of these. It's all recent model cars at that dealership.
Anyway, will let you know what information I will glean from my visit.
It is certainly a learning experience.
Should have got the Hans Mezger designed 996 turbo
It was definitely drivable, no oil leak whatsoever, and not even idling roughly.
The Porsche technicians are pretty young, and I wonder if they have seen any of these. It's all recent model cars at that dealership.
Anyway, will let you know what information I will glean from my visit.
It is certainly a learning experience.
Should have got the Hans Mezger designed 996 turbo
You didn't say where the "metal shards" were found. I found "metal shards" (albeit to use the term loosely) in the oil filter housing from my 2008 Cayman S when I changed the oil after just 750 miles from new. But this was normal metal (mostly aluminum) metal shedding by a new engine. A subsequent oil change about 750 miles later found hardly any trace -- and not enough to show up in a pic -- of any metal in the filter oil. At around 2K miles when I had the oil changed again this time at the dealer while we didn't bother to capture the filter oil the engine was running better and better and even at 2200 miles was running just fine.
(It ran fine even after a '89 Volvo crossed over 2 lanes of traffic to smash into the side of the Cayman which rendered the car a pile of speed yellow scrap metal.)
The 996 Turbo engine is not bullet proof and it costs upwards of $40K to replace should the need arise.
Anyhow, I'm anxiously awaiting to read what you learn from your next visit with the techs.
Take lots of pics of any engine hardware.
#18
07-12-2017, 10:26 PM
Registered User
It would have been so much better to take to an Indy..Dealerships always just say "replace" and find quickest scape goat..Indy will usually give you more info & go deeper into the issue.
I find it hard to believe the LN IMS failed..also failures usually happen to low mileage cars
I find it hard to believe the LN IMS failed..also failures usually happen to low mileage cars
#19
07-13-2017, 08:04 PM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nashville
Posts: 54
Rep Power: 22 Sorry to see you have a problem with an engine fitted with one of our IMS Retrofits. At that mileage and especially as you had just had the oil changed and there were no symptoms (if the bearing was on it's way out, I would have expected some debris in the filter), I'm wondering if the IMS was a secondary failure, even if an IMS failure at all. I would have expected you not to have been able to drive it (big oil leak likely) and it would have been making noise and likely would have jumped time having been driven to the dealership.
Was this installation registered and have a serial number I can look up for more details on the installation?
Was a forensic inspection done including teardown? Any scored cylinders? It's taken some time to corroborate our theory, but in most every case we've seen one of our bearings fail with mileage, there have been scored cylinders, poorly fitted cold air intake, or a dry (non-oiled) washable air filter, all which lead to contamination of the oil with high silicon content.
You are not too far from Flat 6 or LN - I'm sure we can do much better for less than the dealer and do updates at the same time. Shipping is cheap and easy. We're not so much in the engine business here, but if Jake does the work, we can get to the root cause and obviously we'll do our best to make this process as painless as possible and I'd help out where I can.
Was this installation registered and have a serial number I can look up for more details on the installation?
Was a forensic inspection done including teardown? Any scored cylinders? It's taken some time to corroborate our theory, but in most every case we've seen one of our bearings fail with mileage, there have been scored cylinders, poorly fitted cold air intake, or a dry (non-oiled) washable air filter, all which lead to contamination of the oil with high silicon content.
You are not too far from Flat 6 or LN - I'm sure we can do much better for less than the dealer and do updates at the same time. Shipping is cheap and easy. We're not so much in the engine business here, but if Jake does the work, we can get to the root cause and obviously we'll do our best to make this process as painless as possible and I'd help out where I can.
I have had my Porsche's serviced there since 1994 until they closed last year. Andrew Heath was incredible and a good reason to own these cars. He retired unfortunately. I haven't been able to find a serial number of that IMS in my records.
Thy showed my the remains of the IMS- the bearings were totally extruded. Here is a picture of the flange part, it looks pretty chewed up...
#22
07-18-2017, 02:50 PM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nashville
Posts: 54
Rep Power: 22
Thank you for your offer.
I decided to just bite the bullitt and have them replace it with a factory rebuilt engine from Germany.
With everything in little pieces in their workshop I just felt I didn't have the energy to deal with negotiating shipping it elsewhere and starting again.
Will let you know how this works out.
I decided to just bite the bullitt and have them replace it with a factory rebuilt engine from Germany.
With everything in little pieces in their workshop I just felt I didn't have the energy to deal with negotiating shipping it elsewhere and starting again.
Will let you know how this works out.
#23
07-21-2017, 04:59 PM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nashville
Posts: 54
Rep Power: 22
Got it back from dealership.
Runs fantastic and sounds great ( different acoustics for some reason)
Only disappointment is dealership did not credit me PCA discount on parts despite promising they would
Of course, once I was driving I just put it all behind me.
Running in a new engine, and plan another 140K on this one.
No point selling it now.
Maybe add a coupe down the road and keep this for sunny weather...
Runs fantastic and sounds great ( different acoustics for some reason)
Only disappointment is dealership did not credit me PCA discount on parts despite promising they would
Of course, once I was driving I just put it all behind me.
Running in a new engine, and plan another 140K on this one.
No point selling it now.
Maybe add a coupe down the road and keep this for sunny weather...
#24
07-21-2017, 05:03 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: vancouver, bc, canada
Posts: 304
Rep Power: 30 
#26
07-24-2017, 02:38 PM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nashville
Posts: 54
Rep Power: 22
Went back, and it turns out they did credit me the PCA discount. They just don't list it as a subtraction of the parts total like they did in the past.
The German factory sourced rebuilt engine and all associated parts came to $11205.....add 30 hours labor plus other stuff needing work...
This actually compared favorably to quotes I got elsewhere .
Add the 2 year unlimited miles warranty and I feel OK about the whole spiel.
A friend I talked to today had a similar disaster with his 996 turbo, and paid an apparently similar amount at an Indi but waited 3 months to get it back.
Somebody else said it happened to a 997..
I thought the turbo models didn't have this issue?
Oh, and did I mention it drives like a brand new car?
There is no substitute ( for under $80K )
The German factory sourced rebuilt engine and all associated parts came to $11205.....add 30 hours labor plus other stuff needing work...
This actually compared favorably to quotes I got elsewhere .
Add the 2 year unlimited miles warranty and I feel OK about the whole spiel.
A friend I talked to today had a similar disaster with his 996 turbo, and paid an apparently similar amount at an Indi but waited 3 months to get it back.
Somebody else said it happened to a 997..
I thought the turbo models didn't have this issue?
Oh, and did I mention it drives like a brand new car?
There is no substitute ( for under $80K )
#27
07-24-2017, 03:52 PM
The Mezger engine has an IMS but the design is different than the M96/M97 so you don't see IMS bearing issues on the turbos and GT cars.
#28
07-25-2017, 07:10 AM
"The Mezger engine has an IMS but the design is different than the M96/M97 so you don't see IMS bearing issues on the turbos and GT cars."
Plain bearing - Similar to LNE IMS Solution...
Plain bearing - Similar to LNE IMS Solution...
#29
07-25-2017, 06:45 PM
Any engine has a number of failure modes. The engine is only as good as its weakest part. This can be an IMS bearing, a lay shaft key, the bolts holding the gear to the lay shaft, a rod bolt, a rod, a chain link, etc.
I don't know what the percentage of Turbo engines have had this failure but the number of Turbo engines is quite small.
The Turbo engine can also experience a coolant hose fitting coming loose. These are aluminum and epoxied into the block. It seems tracked cars are more likely to suffer this problem but as the car accumulates miles and time who knows? So far (knock wood) my 2003 Turbo with over 156K miles has not had this problem. I don't lay awake at night worrying about it though.
The problem doesn't ruin the engine but it is an engine out job to address and once the engine is out all 6 or 7 of these fittings need to be redone.
#30
07-29-2017, 11:37 AM
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nashville
Posts: 54
Rep Power: 22
A friend of mine had to have his turbo 996 engine rebuilt, but he said they had dialed in way too much boost ( 750hp!! ).
It took months to be rebuilt at an Indie and was quite expensive. When I told hime what I paid he said I would not have saved much by going elsewhere .
He tracks the car with extensive modifications.
Interestingly, with less power he has improved his lap times presumably because it has smoother more predictable performance.
I realize this would be out of my price range - no track time for me. ( heck - it's a convertible anyway...)
It took months to be rebuilt at an Indie and was quite expensive. When I told hime what I paid he said I would not have saved much by going elsewhere .
He tracks the car with extensive modifications.
Interestingly, with less power he has improved his lap times presumably because it has smoother more predictable performance.
I realize this would be out of my price range - no track time for me. ( heck - it's a convertible anyway...)