I have an opportunity to change up my current 05 M3 6spd convertible to an 01 911 convertible 6spd. It has optional hardtop, LN Engineering IMS Pro kit, RMS and new Sachs clutch kit all installed on 01/17. Oz wheels which I don't like and around 84k on it. Asking $22995. No scratches or dents and minimal wear on leather. Do you guys think this would be a good investment? I love my m3 but want to change it up. Thanks. Mark

 

Good investment? No, cars are not good investments ever. I have owned a few 996s, and they are good cars. these cars are at the point where milage is less important then time and service history. these cars are 15+ years old now, there are very nice condition 996s with 150k+ miles and likewise I have seen several 60K mile cars in poor condition, so I wouldn't pay more for less miles. Now the hard top does add to the value, but the clutch and IMS being done back in 2007 (10 years ago) doesn't really add anything. $23K seems high for a 3.4L car.

 

I'm sorry, 1/2017 and I didn't actually mean for an investment. It will be a weekend driver as is my M3. I just meant spending more money than I did for my M3 and selling my m3.

 

My M3 has 125k on it and is running great. I always wanted a Porsche and thought with the recent service history and the cleanliness of this car that it would be a good opportunity to sell the M3 and move into it. Any info would be great...

 

The Porsche is just a used car so a thorough used car check out can go a long way towards providing you with enough confidence to do the deal at an agreeable price or to walk away and resume looking for a suitable car.

Briefly, visit the car cold and with the A/C off -- you check this later on -- be sure the CEL goes dark after you start the cold engine and as it begins to idle. Let the cold engine idle while you walk around the car. Check body panel gaps, fits, finishes, tire age/condition (uneven wear is a sign of an alignment problem), brake rotor wear (1mm lip around rotor is a sign the brakes are worn and rotors/pads need to be replaced).

Check inside the radiator ducts. Lots of trash means at best you'll have to budget for bumper cover removal to remove the trash and you could find one or more radiators (or condensers) leaking.

Be aware that if the radiator ducts are full of trash likely the body water drains are too and this can result in water backing up and flowing into the cabin. Check for signs of water in the cabin, under the seats, and any signs of dampness of the carpets along the bottom of the doors. Door seals (membranes) can leak, too.

While you are doing all of the above keep an ear, make that two ears, tuned to the engine for any scary noises.

After some idle time -- the more the better -- let the seller take you on a 15 mile test ride. The route should be selected to give the driver a chance to demo the car as you intend to use it.

You want to experience a mix of driving with after the engine fully warmed up a hard acceleration up through a couple of gears. The engine should pull strong and smooth and after return to a normal idle.

At some speed in 5th gear have the driver floor the accelerator pedal. I mean floor it. The engine RPMs should rise in sync with the car's increase in speed. If RPMs rise with no increase in vehicle speed the clutch is slipping. No need to test this again. It won't get any better.

Back at the starting point then you get behind the wheel and drive the car over the same route and drive it the same way.

You must experience the car on the road being driven as you intend to drive it.

After the test ride/drive back at the starting place then check every subsystem to make sure all work. Check the head lights, A/C, seat adjustment, stereo, top, tail lights, windows, spoiler. Everything.

Regarding the top if the canvas is not smooth my Porsche techs tell me this is a sign the rubber sheet underneath the canvas and which keeps the outside out of the inside of the cabin is bad.

If after all of the above if you still like the car and believe you can buy it for an agreeable price, arrange for a PPI. Among other things this gets the car in the air so a careful check can be made for any leak sign. This is another reason for the long idle time, the 15 mile test ride, the 15 mile test drive, is to run the engine maybe an hour and get it plenty hot, along with the transmission and other running gear.

Every gasket, seal, o-ring, hose, hose fitting, hydraulic line, line fitting, radiator, dust boot, etc., needs to be checked for any leak sign.

Biggies are the RMS, water pump, radiators. But don't skip over the other possible leak points. My Turbo manifested a leaking selector shaft seal, leaking front diff (AWD system) axle flange seals, along with a leaking RMS and a leaking water pump, oh and leaking spoiler hydraulic cylinders, even the inside auto-dimming rear view mirror leaked at some point.

You have to look at everything. Twice.

Remember if you find something you don't like walk away. There's always another car.

 

Hey thanks for the great response. I think I'll be going to the dealer tomorrow and will report back..

 

well I went to check it out. overall a very clean body. Had rock chips on the nose but then realized there's a clear bra on. Brand new OZ racing rims and new tires but 18" Look small to me. Started up fine. no lights on after start up. ac blew cold. all lights worked. Aftermarket heads unit with some usb ports and a small screen on the radio that's acts as a reverse cam. Nice touch. Initial drive and right away felt the power right at the top of the pedal. This thing took off. Gearing felt great. Handled well. Over all a good test drive. After we got back to the dealer I immediately got out and looked underneath while it was running and didn't see any moisture. Interior door leather was a little scratched and worn and the seats were showing some cracks but nothing excessive. Finally the manager pulls out a work order for LN Engineering IMS Pro kit, RMS and new Sachs clutch kit. I was happy to see that. Got him down to $22200 from $22999. Now I don't know whether that is still as good deal or not.. Any thoughts?

 

The total engine run time should be on the order of an hour. You want to give the DME time to go through its readiness monitor tests and either set all these to complete or flag a problem which has the CEL on.

After the test ride/drive the car should lifted in the air so a thorough check can be made for any leak sign.

My Turbo had a leaking transmission selector shaft. Yet no transmission fluid on the ground. But the side of the transmission was wet with transmission fluid. Transmission replaced under CPO warranty. The Turbo developed leaking front diff axle flange seals. No fluid on the ground. At some point it developed a RMS leak. No engine oil on the ground. The water pump developed a leak. No coolant on the ground.

So I repeat: The car has to be lifted in the air and a close check made for any leak sign. The absence of leak sign on the ground after a test drive is not conclusive proof the car is leak free.

For price all I advise is one visit the used car sites: nada.com or kbb.com; are two that come to mind and enter the car's numbers/details and see what trade-in, private sale, retail sale numbers come up.

If the two sites have any disagreement on prices -- and they probably will -- I'd go with the one that had the lowest prices. Not my job to do the seller's job and set a higher price and not my job to reconcile the differences between web sites.

Let me add that no dealer ever prices a car pessimistically, though if you find such a car its low price should raise big red flags. The usual mark up for a used car is at least 10% and really my info and limited experience is the mark up can be 15%, 20%, or even more.

(Traded in a 2006 GTO for a new 2008 Cayman S. Spotted the GTO on a nearby GM dealer's used car lot a few weeks later and it was marked up 21% over what my trade in allowance was.)

(Re the Turbo I mentioned above. Bought that car used. Asking price varied depending upon where I looked but it was around $61,999. I got the car for $57.7K. Probably could have had it for a bit less but I let my heart up the bid by $700. Dammit.)

If the car is worth owning at all it is worth its trade in value or up to however much one is willing to pay or how much the seller is willing to let the car go for.

I start out low. One can always up his offer. But one wants to avoid the case of the salesman -- really one should be talking to the GM/SM as only these two individuals can accept an offer -- declining the offer and then one if faced with raising one's offer and this repeats until one's at the initial asking price.

If you raise your offer, and chances are you will have to, do so after much deliberation (real or fake) away from the ear shot of the sales staff and take your time. Minutes. Come back and up your offer by hundreds not thousands. If you feel the need to up your offer once again, do so but in a much smaller amount. Say you bump your offer initial offer by $500. The next increase should be less than $500, say $250. This signals there is a limit to how much you will raise your offer going forward. You won't be walked $500 at a time until your offer price is where the dealer wants it.

There are as many ways to buy a car as there are car buyers.

But what works for me is when I'm ready, and I mean ready to buy, I make it clear I'm going to buy a car. "Hi, my name is Macster and I'm here to buy a car today" and I add something like "Provided I can make a suitable deal." Try to say it within earshot of the SM/GM. I want their attention. I point out I have other cars on my list and I have a list of cars: make/model, price, mileage, etc.; but I'm here because blah blah blah. The cars are not all in this case 996's but they are all comparable cars in terms of cost, model year, mileage, etc. Now I might not be caught dead in any of those cars but the dealer doesn't have to know that.

The idea is if the GM/SM sees you walk off the lot without buying a car he must feel it to the bottom of his soul a sale has been lost. You won't be back tomorrow offering a higher price. Well, you can be, if you believe after some time to think things over you were really too low -- it is possible of course to start out too low.

But the GM/SM won't know that until tomorrow. You want the GM/SM to feel the anguish of seeing you walk off the lot and all that money with you.

 

Didn't see any mention of the ragtop as part of the eval. Need to inspect the top, look carefully at the rear window and how it is attached to the top, this is where the factory tops tend to fail first. Also, cycle the top and make sure its not cavitating (high pump whine, jittery top motion). Lastly, open the top to the service position (leading edge about 6 inches from the top of the windshield) then unsnap the cables holding the rear of the top down and fold it up out of the way. You should be able to see the hydraulic actuator cylinders just outboard of the rear seatbacks. Look carefully for leaking hydraulic fluid - may want to wipe the lower part of the cylinder body with a kleenex or shoptowel to see if there is evidence of leakage since the hydraulic fluid is clear and difficult to see.

HTH...

 

the price still seems high to me, is it because its from a dealer? am I missing something here??? I would easily take half that for my 996.