ticket after the fact??
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Cab Lover
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 429
From: Redondo Beach
Rep Power: 40
ticket after the fact??
So I'm driving down the 405 south to Irvine and this young looking kid in a modified Nissan is all over me. So I give him a little taste of what the p-car can do. When he's 10 car lengths behind I ease off of the gas and come back down to a morning commute speed. So are you ready for this? The kid pulls next to me and just cruises along side me. I finally look over because he's just pissed off! I'm looking at this "kid" and he lips to me "slow down" and waves his hand in a downward motion.
Well, I'm thinking who the hell is this kid? Telling "me" to slow down? He kept on motioning me to slow down and I was getting pissed! I just couldn't figure out why this "kid" was giving "me" a lecture. Then after what seems like a good minute or two of looking at each other, I looked down and noticed the CHP "badge" and uniform under his coat!
HOLLY SHIAT!
Needless to say, I slowed down but not before he jumped on his cell phone reported my plates.
So here's the question: Does the PoPo have the right to write you ticket without actually catching you speeding first hand?
God, I hope not!!!
Well, I'm thinking who the hell is this kid? Telling "me" to slow down? He kept on motioning me to slow down and I was getting pissed! I just couldn't figure out why this "kid" was giving "me" a lecture. Then after what seems like a good minute or two of looking at each other, I looked down and noticed the CHP "badge" and uniform under his coat!
HOLLY SHIAT!
Needless to say, I slowed down but not before he jumped on his cell phone reported my plates.
So here's the question: Does the PoPo have the right to write you ticket without actually catching you speeding first hand?
God, I hope not!!!
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 275
From: SoCal
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Most states have ruled that an off duty police officer maintains his full powers of arrest
California, Tennessee, and a few other states I've looked up already had each state's supreme court rule on the question of:
Q: When an officer is off-duty, what are his/her official duties?
The ruling is that while a police officer is not obligated to nor under some duty to enforce the law when off duty, the officer may assume his/her regular duties to enforce the law and keep the peace.
The flip side of this is that if an off duty officer is engaged in employment for a private firm, say a security company who routinely uses part time off duty police officers, the municipality or state agency the police officer belongs to still is responsible for and will incur any liability caused by that officer's actions even while engaged in off duty employment. (e.g. let's say some provable misconduct, abuse, etc. - you get to sue the security agency and the police agency)
If this young guy was an actual police officer, and perhaps not just a security officer you mistook to be a local/state PD, then yes, he maintains full arrest and enforcement powers. Even if he were a vice, homicide, or other non-traffic department officer, any polilce officer can still issue a traffic citation if they choose to do so.
However, since he did not stop you on the spot and issue you a citation, I would not worry too much.
California, Tennessee, and a few other states I've looked up already had each state's supreme court rule on the question of:
Q: When an officer is off-duty, what are his/her official duties?
The ruling is that while a police officer is not obligated to nor under some duty to enforce the law when off duty, the officer may assume his/her regular duties to enforce the law and keep the peace.
The flip side of this is that if an off duty officer is engaged in employment for a private firm, say a security company who routinely uses part time off duty police officers, the municipality or state agency the police officer belongs to still is responsible for and will incur any liability caused by that officer's actions even while engaged in off duty employment. (e.g. let's say some provable misconduct, abuse, etc. - you get to sue the security agency and the police agency)
If this young guy was an actual police officer, and perhaps not just a security officer you mistook to be a local/state PD, then yes, he maintains full arrest and enforcement powers. Even if he were a vice, homicide, or other non-traffic department officer, any polilce officer can still issue a traffic citation if they choose to do so.
However, since he did not stop you on the spot and issue you a citation, I would not worry too much.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: SoCal
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Ron,
I'm not in any line of work right now. Hence my location description. What it should say is Homeless and Unemployed. I quit the silicon valley rat race in late 2001, travelled/lived around the world for about a year and a half, then returned to the states wondering what to do next.
Settled on hanging out and experiencing life down in SoCal for awhile, and other than helping out a few hours a week for a friend's company, I mainly spend my time volunteering at a youth tutoring center (http://www.bresee.org) and figuring out what I want to do next.
My background is a bit odd - went to college pretty early and did a double degree undergrad in Economics and Molec/Cell Biology, decided I really didn't want to follow in mom/dad's footsteps to be a doctor as they fervenly wished, and instead stayed in school to complete a Master's in Comp Sci. Thought about going to work as a software engineer but this was 1991, and the economy sucked for engineers and I was only 21, so for the hell of it I did a combo MBA/JD program.
Never took or passed the CA Bar exam, had no interest then and no interest now. I just thought having a good fundamental understanding of the law would help me in whatever career I went into later, and it was a good way to fend my parens off.
Parents caught me at a weak moment, and actually started in a grad program for Molec/Cell Biology - convinced me if I didn't want to go be an MD, I could follow in half of pop's footsteps as he's an academic researcher with both MD/PhD. But thankfully I started playing around with the first early JDKs from Sun, 1994 came around, and I dropped out after the first semester in true silicon valley folklore fashion to go work for a little company called Mosaic Communications.
Fast forward 7 death march years, I go on sabbatical, 9/11 happens, and some close friends go up in smoke with the rest of the thousands in the WTC. I quit the next day and said i wasn't coming back from sabbatical, and spent the next year and a half following the sun in a weird homage to that old movie Endless Summer.
p.s. given I've never taken or passed the bar, I am neither legally qualified nor allowed to give legal advice or act in any capacity as counsel. take whatever I say as the rantings and .02 cents from any private citizen.
I'm not in any line of work right now. Hence my location description. What it should say is Homeless and Unemployed. I quit the silicon valley rat race in late 2001, travelled/lived around the world for about a year and a half, then returned to the states wondering what to do next.
Settled on hanging out and experiencing life down in SoCal for awhile, and other than helping out a few hours a week for a friend's company, I mainly spend my time volunteering at a youth tutoring center (http://www.bresee.org) and figuring out what I want to do next.
My background is a bit odd - went to college pretty early and did a double degree undergrad in Economics and Molec/Cell Biology, decided I really didn't want to follow in mom/dad's footsteps to be a doctor as they fervenly wished, and instead stayed in school to complete a Master's in Comp Sci. Thought about going to work as a software engineer but this was 1991, and the economy sucked for engineers and I was only 21, so for the hell of it I did a combo MBA/JD program.
Never took or passed the CA Bar exam, had no interest then and no interest now. I just thought having a good fundamental understanding of the law would help me in whatever career I went into later, and it was a good way to fend my parens off.
Parents caught me at a weak moment, and actually started in a grad program for Molec/Cell Biology - convinced me if I didn't want to go be an MD, I could follow in half of pop's footsteps as he's an academic researcher with both MD/PhD. But thankfully I started playing around with the first early JDKs from Sun, 1994 came around, and I dropped out after the first semester in true silicon valley folklore fashion to go work for a little company called Mosaic Communications.
Fast forward 7 death march years, I go on sabbatical, 9/11 happens, and some close friends go up in smoke with the rest of the thousands in the WTC. I quit the next day and said i wasn't coming back from sabbatical, and spent the next year and a half following the sun in a weird homage to that old movie Endless Summer.
p.s. given I've never taken or passed the bar, I am neither legally qualified nor allowed to give legal advice or act in any capacity as counsel. take whatever I say as the rantings and .02 cents from any private citizen.
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Orlando
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Back a few years ago, I was pulled over by an off duty plain clothes cop. He flashed his badge and motioned me to pull over and made me wait til an on duty officer showed up to write the ticket. Just wrote it for careless driving rather than speeding, since he had no radar. In your instance though, I dont think anything will come of it, at least I hope not.
Ed
Ed
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 275
From: SoCal
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No worries Oweyea - had some free time so I actually looked up the Calif VC and while I'm correct above that any off duty officer can choose to continue to enfore the laws, you're actually protected in this specific type of example. Basically, an officer can legally enforce the speeding laws but you get off scott free if a) he's not in uniform, or b) not in the properly painted colors of a police vehicle for his municipality or state agency.
To wit, you are protected by CVC 40804 (B) -
40804. (a) In any prosecution under this code upon a charge involving the speed of a vehicle, any officer or other person shall be incompetent as a witness if the testimony is based upon or obtained from or by the maintenance or use of a speed trap.
(b) Every officer arresting, or participating or assisting in the arrest of, a person so charged while on duty for the exclusive or main purpose of enforcing the provisions of Divisions 10 and 11 is incompetent as a witness if at the time of such arrest he was not wearing a distinctive uniform, or was using a motor vehicle not painted the distinctive color specified by the commissioner. This section does not apply to an officer assigned exclusively to the duty of investigating and securing evidence in reference to any theft of a vehicle or failure of a person to stop in the event of an accident or violation of Section 23109 or in reference to any felony charge or to any officer engaged in serving any warrant when the officer is not engaged in patrolling the highways for the purpose of enforcing the traffic laws.
To wit, you are protected by CVC 40804 (B) -
40804. (a) In any prosecution under this code upon a charge involving the speed of a vehicle, any officer or other person shall be incompetent as a witness if the testimony is based upon or obtained from or by the maintenance or use of a speed trap.
(b) Every officer arresting, or participating or assisting in the arrest of, a person so charged while on duty for the exclusive or main purpose of enforcing the provisions of Divisions 10 and 11 is incompetent as a witness if at the time of such arrest he was not wearing a distinctive uniform, or was using a motor vehicle not painted the distinctive color specified by the commissioner. This section does not apply to an officer assigned exclusively to the duty of investigating and securing evidence in reference to any theft of a vehicle or failure of a person to stop in the event of an accident or violation of Section 23109 or in reference to any felony charge or to any officer engaged in serving any warrant when the officer is not engaged in patrolling the highways for the purpose of enforcing the traffic laws.
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From: SoCal
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NYSEGuy,
Not sure about your state's vehicle code, but if you had been in
California, that plain clothes cop would have been fully entitled to pull you over and have you wait for the properly uniformed officer, but regardless of what he told that uniformed officer, if you had gone to court this would have been thrown out based on inadmissible evidence as long as the uniformed officer who later showed up did not personally witness any violation.
The plain clothes officer may have witnessed your speeding, but his relaying of this information to either the other officer or to the court would have been ruled inadmissible.
Not sure about your state's vehicle code, but if you had been in
California, that plain clothes cop would have been fully entitled to pull you over and have you wait for the properly uniformed officer, but regardless of what he told that uniformed officer, if you had gone to court this would have been thrown out based on inadmissible evidence as long as the uniformed officer who later showed up did not personally witness any violation.
The plain clothes officer may have witnessed your speeding, but his relaying of this information to either the other officer or to the court would have been ruled inadmissible.
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From: SoCal
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Just in case some CALBAR freak is reading this board, I throw out my usual disclaimer that I am not dispensing nor engaging in the unlicensed practice of law, giving legal counsel, nor expressing a judicial opinion. I'm just a private citizen who happens to have some opinions.
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i suggest you buy a chp 11-99 badge. it works most of the time with chp's. its only 1500 and they give you a badge and a license plate frame. it has gotten me out of trouble many times. go to the chp website or type in 1199 foundation in google
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Posts: 275
From: SoCal
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I suggest just keeping the badge and don't put on the 11-99 license plate. This one is only hearsay but I keep hearing about people with 11-99 plates being pulled over by local PDs like LAPD on incredibly minor things.
Or even by CHP just because there are idiots now selling the plates on E-bay and want to see the real badge.
Anyone have 11-99 plates and can confirm/deny this hearsay?
Or even by CHP just because there are idiots now selling the plates on E-bay and want to see the real badge.
Anyone have 11-99 plates and can confirm/deny this hearsay?
