Nitrogen in tires
#31
08-26-2008, 04:27 PM
Im talking about use in motorsports in my quote you use. I dont see a benefit for the street. and i dont care about moisture content of air im talking about expansion rates and nitrogen is more consistent having less moisture in it, and thats why it is used by every race team... they have been doing this for years, the tires are given to teams mounted by the tire manufacturer and the teams remove the air out of them and fill them with nitrogen.
#32
08-26-2008, 06:03 PM
The expansion rate of Nitrogen and air is going to be about the same until you throw water vapor into the equation, say you have two tires one filled with for the most part inert dry nitrogen... the other filled with compressed air , and lets say your 1% claim of water vapor.... now how is it that as these tires build up temperature that the pressure is going to also go up identically? That is why race teams use nitrogen, like i said pressure inside the tire is going to effect the spring rate of the tire which in turn is going to effect the handling of the car, why wouldnt you want to go with something that is going to give you more consistent results over the course of a run?
Last edited by Porsche917; 08-26-2008 at 06:07 PM.
#33
08-26-2008, 06:33 PM
How are you saying this defies the laws of physics? The expansion rate of Nitrogen and air is going to be about the same until you throw water vapor into the equation, say you have two tires one filled with for the most part inert dry nitrogen... the other filled with compressed air , and lets say your 1% claim of water vapor.... now how is it that as these tires build up temperature that the pressure is going to also go up identically? That is why race teams use nitrogen, like i said pressure inside the tire is going to effect the spring rate of the tire which in turn is going to effect the handling of the car, why wouldnt you want to go with something that is going to give you more consistent results over the course of a run?
The expansion rate of Nitrogen and air is going to be about the same until you throw water vapor into the equation, say you have two tires one filled with for the most part inert dry nitrogen... the other filled with compressed air , and lets say your 1% claim of water vapor.... now how is it that as these tires build up temperature that the pressure is going to also go up identically? That is why race teams use nitrogen, like i said pressure inside the tire is going to effect the spring rate of the tire which in turn is going to effect the handling of the car, why wouldnt you want to go with something that is going to give you more consistent results over the course of a run?According to a scientific principle known as Avogadro's law, all gases, whatever may be their density and the quantity of water which they hold in gaseous solution, and all vapors expand equally between the same degrees of heat. That is, until the water turns to steam. Steam is not an issue here.
So, regardless of how much water vapor is in the compressed air, it won't have any effect on the rate of expansion of the tire. So, you can fill the tires with helium, oxygen, compressed air, Nitrogen OR ANY OTHER GAS, and it the pressure will be the same when heated.
I didn't invent the law. It's a law of physics.
Sorry.
#34
08-26-2008, 06:40 PM
I promise everyone that this will be my last post on this subject.
According to a scientific principle known as Avogadro's law, all gases, whatever may be their density and the quantity of water which they hold in gaseous solution, and all vapors expand equally between the same degrees of heat. That is, until the water turns to steam. Steam is not an issue here.
So, regardless of how much water vapor is in the compressed air, it won't have any effect on the rate of expansion of the tire. So, you can fill the tires with helium, oxygen, compressed air, Nitrogen OR ANY OTHER GAS, and it the pressure will be the same when heated.
I didn't invent the law. It's a law of physics.
Sorry.
According to a scientific principle known as Avogadro's law, all gases, whatever may be their density and the quantity of water which they hold in gaseous solution, and all vapors expand equally between the same degrees of heat. That is, until the water turns to steam. Steam is not an issue here.
So, regardless of how much water vapor is in the compressed air, it won't have any effect on the rate of expansion of the tire. So, you can fill the tires with helium, oxygen, compressed air, Nitrogen OR ANY OTHER GAS, and it the pressure will be the same when heated.
I didn't invent the law. It's a law of physics.
Sorry.
#35
08-26-2008, 08:10 PM
lol of course were arent worried about water turning to steam since we are already talking about it in that state to begin with... well just think of all the money you could save these race teams that have been using nitrogen over the last several decades...
#37
08-27-2008, 01:23 AM
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Once again, to quote John Adams: "Facts are stubborn things."
Even more to the point:
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
Richard D. Feynman, Report of the Presidential Commission on the Space Shuttle Challenger Accident, Appendix F
Even more to the point:
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
Richard D. Feynman, Report of the Presidential Commission on the Space Shuttle Challenger Accident, Appendix F
#38
08-27-2008, 11:18 AM
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Location: Walnut Creek, CA
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when I spent the last year working in the tire industry you'd be amazed how many places now carry nitrogen. Many have it as their only source for fillups and don't charge for it. These systems were expensive to put in, if it wasn't a benefit I don't see why the shops would put them in.
#39
08-27-2008, 12:34 PM
when I spent the last year working in the tire industry you'd be amazed how many places now carry nitrogen. Many have it as their only source for fillups and don't charge for it. These systems were expensive to put in, if it wasn't a benefit I don't see why the shops would put them in.
Because most people believe what they are told without questioning it. So if average Joe Schmoe starts to think that paying 25 bucks for Nitrogen in their tires is truly useful, then they are now creating revenue where once there was none, I don't see whats so hard to believe...
#42
08-30-2008, 11:03 AM
nitrogen filling is advised simply because it fills up space which otherwise would be occupied by oxygen (air consists of 21% oxygen) This oxygen could combine with hydrogen and form water molecules which could decrease the life of your tire. Nitrogen is also said to posses superior damping properties compared to atmospheric air.
#43
08-30-2008, 01:08 PM
nitrogen filling is advised simply because it fills up space which otherwise would be occupied by oxygen (air consists of 21% oxygen) This oxygen could combine with hydrogen and form water molecules which could decrease the life of your tire. Nitrogen is also said to posses superior damping properties compared to atmospheric air.
"Nitrogen is said to possess superior damping properties" is nothing but marketing BS. Nitrogen is an inert gas has HAS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT DAMPING PROPERTIES THAN ANY OTHER GAS. This is because of Avogadro's Law (look it up).
Man, I just can't believe what an amazing job the Nitrogen marketing people have done serving up this nonsense.
If it makes you feel better to fill your tires with Nitrogen (placebo effect), be my guest.
But you'd be much better off giving the money to a needy charity.
Have a great holiday!
Last edited by Tech1_Mike; 08-30-2008 at 01:17 PM.
