No argument here. I would love a turbo Cayman. That is my dream car. If Porsche won't do it, TPC will!

 

How so more than wording, it's not tube framed, that's the only thing I was wrong about. It's still a frame rail and nothing else from a corvette. Still a purpose built race car, still not comparable to an RSR which are all things I said as well. A frame rail hardly constitutes production based. The steel frame rail from a Corvette is hardly stiff enough as well, so that frame rail, which is the production "base" of the corvette is likely stiffened and modded like crazy before it leaves P&M.

It's still NOT anything like a production Corvette. That is the point you seem not to want to address. I've posted pics of exactly what goes into the GT1 that's production based. That's it, and even that is modded.

Let's make a RSR out of no Porsche parts and blend a techquipment roll bar into the rest of the cage and you'll have about as much of a Porsche as there is Corvette in that GT1.

 

No, you can argue that rear engine makes the Porsches good. Lots of rear end traction. Earlier on gas to exit corners. Mid engine, you never know which side wants to swap ends on you, which is why nearly all rear engine race cars are rear biased with weight to make the car more predictable. The fact that the engine is in the back makes the rear track have to be wider allowing wider tires and consequently more grip. If you're dealing with elementary school physics your point would make some sense, but we are obviously WAY past that because if it were such a disadvantage, it wouldn't beat the likes of Ferrrari for so many years.

Physics is a combination of principals, NOT ONE PRINCIPAL FIT ALL. When you come to realize that, you'll see why the combination of aero, suspension and chassis balance, using the same limits that are applied to mid engine cars, can still win races. You still can't seem to get over that can you???

 

GT3 convertible please!

 

Nah, GT2 Targa with more cupholders and heated steering wheel please.

 

No what we would have is Porsche's GT1 car, which has no , nada, zip production chassis in the car. It is a tube frame race car, which is completely expected in the GT1 class. It does however have a production car based engine, or wait is the M64 considered a race car based engine

 

I think Ferrari is on to something with there significant rear bias mid engine cars, and there rear biased front mid engine cars.

 

Except that Ferrari build quality is not as good as the 911s, and their torque profile stinks.

I know that Porsche Motorsports will enter with a completely different engine configuration for a racing series that we all know and love.

It will not be rear engined, but mid-engined, and will not will be based on the Cayman design. I know more if folks want to PM me.

 

OMG, do you guys hear yourself speaking? so if the future 911 will be mid-engined. then he will be dead? now way. porsche is in an critcal situation with the rear-engine. and if they would make the future 911 mid-engine. the people will still buy him. because iam sure it will outhandle the ferraris ........

 

The 911 is already outhandling right about everything with 4 wheels, that with a rear-enginge mount.
And that is what makes it so cool. I surely would'nt have bought a 911 if it was a mid-engine, because then it would have lost it soul. I can almost garantee you that if Porsche desides to change that, it will pretty much be the end for 911.

 

And Porsche. People buy 911's because they are different. Go front or mid engine and start looking like everything else with someone able to make cheap looking copies of it. The design cues of the 911 reside in everything Porsche makes, rebuilding is more than just making a cayman, it's remaking a whole brand that is NOT broken to begin with.

 

Yes, that is true.

But what I would like to see someday is what Porsche engineers COULD do with a mid-engined road car. What masterpiece could Porsche build if they were given a clean slate to work with - like the Audi R8?

 

People assume that because Porsche has made something with rear engine that if they move to mid engine they will automatically be better than other manufacturers with mid engines or even better than they are with rear engine.

That would be a huge risk. There is no garauntee a Cayman RSR would be as fast as a 911. The same engineering principals do not apply. Porsche has been doing rear engine constantly for almost 50 years but only dabbled in mid-engine periodically over that period of time.

You'd just as soon assume that they'd be faster with a front engine. Not a definite.

 

How right you are . Fortunately (or the opposite) Porsche has always stated and prided itself that "all development is evolutionary" and "form follows function". Hence it is highly unlikely that we will see a radically different road car. Maybe this is too bad since Porsche's ultra successful 50 year history in top end racing is all with "mid engine" cars ( 1961 RS60LM, '66 906, '69 917-10, '73 917-30, '81 936, etc. etc. up to the RS Spyder in 2005) so they obviously have the engineering experience and expertise. I suspect that the question in Stuttgart is "what would we gain" and they can't come up with a meaningful answer. The Audi R8 is apparently a pretty nice Sunday driver but I don't see Audi or any privateers wanting to put it on the track.

 

Just seems like Porsche is facing a fork in the road. No matter how many times it is stated that Porsche keeps beating Ferrari's and others, the truth is that there are far more entries, there have been far more dollars invested in refining the design and that it doesn't all translate well to real-world driving.
It's interesting that Porsche felt that at tt power levels, they needed awd. That the classic rwd in rear-engine form is not well suited to high power levels. This is the little unspoken notion. The racing Porsche's can scoot in the hands of professionals, but it doesn't translate as well to mere mortals.
Complain as you may, but the R8 and GTR have quickly shown that other AWD configurations can run very fast and do so in the hands of more average people (read larger market and more dollars).
So it seems to me that Porsche can do a few things. Keep the shape of the 911, flip the motor, make it a flat 8, and sell a 911-shaped car w/o a back seat. Or, take the 911 in to the SL space. More luxury and comfort and then turn the Cayenne in to the sports car. TT, optional AWD, KERS, etc.
Before the flames begin, I love my 911. But I consistently have the feeling that the techs at Porsche have done everything to counter the mass and space issues of a rear-engined design. If they want to keep raising the bar - assuming the market demands it - they'll have to consider a fundamental design change. Oh, and yes, I'm sure they can squeeze even more out of the existing design, but with diminishing returns and a less engaging feel.