2010 PDK Turbo: test drive by gen1 owner
Great write-up, awesome pics, looks like you had an amazing time. I wish PCNA would do something like this in North America. I'm surprised to hear the Gen 2 is not that big of a leap from the Gen 1, all the mags I've been reading make it seem like the Gen 2 is the ultimate Porsche. This may sound weird but I'm kind of happy the new TT might not be THAT much better than the Gen 1

997.1 Turbo (tiptronic) = 15/20
997.1 Turbo (manual) = 16/20
997.2 Turbo (manual) = 17/20
997.2 Turbo (PDK) = 18/20
My modified 997.1 Turbo (manual) = 19/20
My car would be 20/20 if it was better looking (I find the rear 1/4 view including the spoiler not pretty at all) and weighed a few hundred kg less.
No revolutionary change in the handling department, even with PTV? Phewww...
Gen. 1 owners are not missing some huge improvement?
The report is that there has been a change in PASM. Firm setting is now softer than before (less rebound dampening). Did you get a chance to try and if so, how does it compare to 997.1 stock and Bilstein?
Did you have a chance to try the dynamic engine mount option?
Gen. 1 owners are not missing some huge improvement?The report is that there has been a change in PASM. Firm setting is now softer than before (less rebound dampening). Did you get a chance to try and if so, how does it compare to 997.1 stock and Bilstein?
Did you have a chance to try the dynamic engine mount option?
It's also difficult for me to distinguish as I have had over a year now driving around on upgraded suspension myself. Speaking of which, no, hard to compare firmness settings of B16's and 997.2 stock dampeners (other than squat, roll etc) as we were on smooth tracks all day. I would need to take a 997.2 car on one of my bumpy back road runs to compare the two properly. From what I did experience though I would say that the B16's still provide a more creamy ride but at the same time you feel more bumps (in a good, information way).
Obviously the stock 997.2 Turbo will suffer from having a much higher ride height (so more roll due to more weight higher up) and less front camber than a modified car so more understeer. The steering was certainly heavier than my geo settings provide.
The 997.2 Turbo PDK box is supposed to be the most evolved version of PDK across any car Porsche make. It was flawless when I was using it. The instructors (who take these cars home with them at night) suggested that Sport mode (not Sport Plus) was best for normal driving.
The 997.2 Turbo PDK box is supposed to be the most evolved version of PDK across any car Porsche make. It was flawless when I was using it. The instructors (who take these cars home with them at night) suggested that Sport mode (not Sport Plus) was best for normal driving.
The way most bypass it is to select 'sport" but use manual mode and shift manually from the paddles or gear lever .
I drove a Panamera and that car does not have the abrupt shift --only the 997S -- and with both 09 and 10 models . The Panamera was criticized by some as having a tamed version of the PDK .
I am curious to drive a 997.2tt and see where Porsche went with this .
As for the highway --"sport auto" is fine . The abrupt jerk is only second to first and not with the other gears . However if one uses "sport auto' on the highway at 55 MPH the car will not remain in 7th gear . if the highway speed limit is 65 or more it will allow a driver to override and use 7th.
Manual shifting all the time allows the driver to decide when he wants to conserve gas or not . It allows the driver the choice of gear selection for all driving situations and in most cases I prefer it .
One interesting note -- EVEN in manual mode if the driver brings the car to redline the car will NOT over rev . It will shift by itself no matter what to avoid engine overev going up gears . It also will ignore any driver command downshifting that coild cause an over rev . This feature alone is worth PDK - as the money shift is an impossibility.
I think we are talking fractions of a percent improvement here with PTV and the dynamic mounts, compared to just the old LSD option. However to a racing driver thrashing the car to its limits then I am sure these differences would shine through. I didn't do any sharp cornering faster than about 70mph though so I couldn't spot any differences.
It's also difficult for me to distinguish as I have had over a year now driving around on upgraded suspension myself. Speaking of which, no, hard to compare firmness settings of B16's and 997.2 stock dampeners (other than squat, roll etc) as we were on smooth tracks all day. I would need to take a 997.2 car on one of my bumpy back road runs to compare the two properly. From what I did experience though I would say that the B16's still provide a more creamy ride but at the same time you feel more bumps (in a good, information way).
Obviously the stock 997.2 Turbo will suffer from having a much higher ride height (so more roll due to more weight higher up) and less front camber than a modified car so more understeer. The steering was certainly heavier than my geo settings provide.
It's also difficult for me to distinguish as I have had over a year now driving around on upgraded suspension myself. Speaking of which, no, hard to compare firmness settings of B16's and 997.2 stock dampeners (other than squat, roll etc) as we were on smooth tracks all day. I would need to take a 997.2 car on one of my bumpy back road runs to compare the two properly. From what I did experience though I would say that the B16's still provide a more creamy ride but at the same time you feel more bumps (in a good, information way).
Obviously the stock 997.2 Turbo will suffer from having a much higher ride height (so more roll due to more weight higher up) and less front camber than a modified car so more understeer. The steering was certainly heavier than my geo settings provide.
("Funny" my initial question to you was going to include: "I know it's been a while since you had the stock suspension so it's hard to remember for comparison...")
Last edited by cannga; Dec 2, 2009 at 06:43 AM.
I got a late notice invite for a session on Tue afternoon due to a cancellation. I met up with Alex and his brother for some lunch and then had 2 hours of fun in the afternoon. The basic structure of the Experience is as Alex states: 12 people split into 2 groups of 6, with the groups being split into 2 different sets of activities. One group of 6 were driven anti-clockwise by the instructors around the outer Silverstone road to the Copse tunnel and to the inside of the circuit to a test track laid out where the Club pits get set up for Silverstone Classic and the like. We did the launch controls accels right through where the Ferrari Club car park was set up for the Classic meet this year!
The big point of the whole day to NB is that you’re jumping from car to car every 5-6 mins, apart from some of the test track work where you get longer in some of the cars. This is done to get you exposure to all the cars with the different options (to experience paddles (Option 840), PTV etc), so it’s good to do this, but it’s fast and furious, rather than getting consolidation in any particular car set-up (and is great fun overall!).
Like Alex I found launch control to be very much a ‘trick’ mode, which perhaps you’d only use to demo a few times to friends, with no ‘real’ road use application. Alex is absolutely right on how to engage launch control: into Sport Plus mode, left foot hard on the brake and then stamp on the throttle. If you are too slow with the throttle application then you don’t get into launch control mode, but have 5000 rpm levels of torque building against the brakes with both feet pressing hard down and the car sliding forward!
I have to say I thought that the mode has been made available to achieve the best possible 0-60/100 accel times and that my brain was mostly thinking about the torture that the drive train is suffering during the launch. I don’t believe many owners with any ‘mechanical sympathy’ would subject their own cars to much launch control work if they had it fitted! (I’d love to know what Porsche engineers actually think about the mode).
In comparison with my manual 997 Gen 1 Turbo I can’t say that things felt much quicker (apart from the initial launch, of course). The first launches were done up to about 60 against cone markers (you can see them in Alex’s YouTube video), followed by max braking, then later runs were up to about 100, followed by max braking. On the way back to the launch control start line there was a coned slalom course and then a ‘swerve’ event against a line of cones (simulating a swerve around an obstacle). You can start to get a feel for the stability of PTM and PSM in the slalom work and perhaps get a feel for the PTV option that one of the cars is fitted with. But this car (think it’s a blue one!) has the sports bucket seats that holds you more firmly laterally and I felt this gave one the impression of more overall stability, rather than anything else affecting things.
When I did my 997 Gen 1 Turbo experience day 2 years ago at Millbrook (in a tiptronic car) I found the accel work on the long straight there to be more exciting, due to the higher terminal speeds available on the longer straight. Similarly I enjoyed the high-speed bowl driving there and the longer circuit work.
Then it was back to the Experience Centre, a swap of instructors and out onto the test tracks. My recommendation here would be to have a well-prepared mental list of the things you want to try out. We had the chance to try 3 activities: the handling circuit, the ice hill and the kick plate, again jumping from car to car (different ones from used for the launch control work). I started on the handling circuit: this is set up as a country road with varying cambers and is quite tight with little run off available. In both manual and PDK cars I mainly used just 2nd and third gears, changing gears in manual mode in the PDK car using the gear lever rather than the steering wheel gearshift switches, driving both types of cars mainly in sport mode. Perhaps I should have used full auto mode in the PDK cars and played around with sport/sport plus modes more (as Alex managed to do) and maybe switched off PSM, but I found that I was concentrating more with driving lines around the quite tight circuit. My basic error was putting in too many steering inputs; the way the circuit is set up is that if you get to the right part of track then a fixed amount of steering will generally get you to the apex of the turns and smoothly out of them (so it’s slow in, fast out!). I then went on the Ice Hill which as is advertised allows you to explore car control with little available grip- this was a really great experience! Next was the kick plate, which again was extremely good value - I found that initially I was using opposite lock to counter the loss of traction and rear end ‘kick’, but also was starting to play around with powering out using throttle (and PSM). This is done at 20-25 mph (needs to be 20+ to get the plate to kick), but it would be interesting to try this at faster speeds. Remember to switch the wipers on!
As per the launch control work, you swap around between the various cars available, spending 10-15 mins in each. Again, a very worthwhile and engaging session.
Overall, the time goes very quickly and the chance to experience the cars and activities was extremely good value. I was very impressed with the professionalism of the instructors and their stoicism of what must be some fairly ‘interesting’ driving styles from the participants. My recommendation would be to prepare a check list ahead of the day of what you’d like to experiment with on the handling circuit: manual gearbox comparisons vs PDK, PDK auto and ‘manual’ work using both the gear lever and steering wheel switches (and also trying the paddles if available). Then take a look at the sport and sport plus modes as well. I’d also like to experiment with disabling PSM, but perhaps initially this should be done somewhere with more room available.
If you have time available rides in the Panamera Turbo and off road in Cayenne are there for the taking. I used some time to get my eyes checked out (I’ve worn glasses for some time and wanted to chat about the best ways of getting the best possible prescription). It’s also worth making time for some caffeine injections whilst you are at the Centre. There’s also an area set up where you can take a look at the various interior options, and I found it interesting to chat to other participants to see what they thought of the Gen II 997 Turbo. There’s also a car with Bose Surround Sound fitted that you can try out inside the Centre.
997 Gen II Turbo guides and price lists were available in the Centre and all the staff were unfailingly polite and helpful throughout the day. My thanks go to everybody there.
My overall impression: I still prefer the manual gearbox, but I’m sure that the paddle PDK set-up would bear looking at more closely out on the road. I’d also like to learn more about the PSM, PTM and possibly PTV modes, together with sport and sport plus modes, to get a better understanding of how they each work and interact with each other.
A great day out, well done Porsche!
The big point of the whole day to NB is that you’re jumping from car to car every 5-6 mins, apart from some of the test track work where you get longer in some of the cars. This is done to get you exposure to all the cars with the different options (to experience paddles (Option 840), PTV etc), so it’s good to do this, but it’s fast and furious, rather than getting consolidation in any particular car set-up (and is great fun overall!).
Like Alex I found launch control to be very much a ‘trick’ mode, which perhaps you’d only use to demo a few times to friends, with no ‘real’ road use application. Alex is absolutely right on how to engage launch control: into Sport Plus mode, left foot hard on the brake and then stamp on the throttle. If you are too slow with the throttle application then you don’t get into launch control mode, but have 5000 rpm levels of torque building against the brakes with both feet pressing hard down and the car sliding forward!
I have to say I thought that the mode has been made available to achieve the best possible 0-60/100 accel times and that my brain was mostly thinking about the torture that the drive train is suffering during the launch. I don’t believe many owners with any ‘mechanical sympathy’ would subject their own cars to much launch control work if they had it fitted! (I’d love to know what Porsche engineers actually think about the mode).
In comparison with my manual 997 Gen 1 Turbo I can’t say that things felt much quicker (apart from the initial launch, of course). The first launches were done up to about 60 against cone markers (you can see them in Alex’s YouTube video), followed by max braking, then later runs were up to about 100, followed by max braking. On the way back to the launch control start line there was a coned slalom course and then a ‘swerve’ event against a line of cones (simulating a swerve around an obstacle). You can start to get a feel for the stability of PTM and PSM in the slalom work and perhaps get a feel for the PTV option that one of the cars is fitted with. But this car (think it’s a blue one!) has the sports bucket seats that holds you more firmly laterally and I felt this gave one the impression of more overall stability, rather than anything else affecting things.
When I did my 997 Gen 1 Turbo experience day 2 years ago at Millbrook (in a tiptronic car) I found the accel work on the long straight there to be more exciting, due to the higher terminal speeds available on the longer straight. Similarly I enjoyed the high-speed bowl driving there and the longer circuit work.
Then it was back to the Experience Centre, a swap of instructors and out onto the test tracks. My recommendation here would be to have a well-prepared mental list of the things you want to try out. We had the chance to try 3 activities: the handling circuit, the ice hill and the kick plate, again jumping from car to car (different ones from used for the launch control work). I started on the handling circuit: this is set up as a country road with varying cambers and is quite tight with little run off available. In both manual and PDK cars I mainly used just 2nd and third gears, changing gears in manual mode in the PDK car using the gear lever rather than the steering wheel gearshift switches, driving both types of cars mainly in sport mode. Perhaps I should have used full auto mode in the PDK cars and played around with sport/sport plus modes more (as Alex managed to do) and maybe switched off PSM, but I found that I was concentrating more with driving lines around the quite tight circuit. My basic error was putting in too many steering inputs; the way the circuit is set up is that if you get to the right part of track then a fixed amount of steering will generally get you to the apex of the turns and smoothly out of them (so it’s slow in, fast out!). I then went on the Ice Hill which as is advertised allows you to explore car control with little available grip- this was a really great experience! Next was the kick plate, which again was extremely good value - I found that initially I was using opposite lock to counter the loss of traction and rear end ‘kick’, but also was starting to play around with powering out using throttle (and PSM). This is done at 20-25 mph (needs to be 20+ to get the plate to kick), but it would be interesting to try this at faster speeds. Remember to switch the wipers on!
As per the launch control work, you swap around between the various cars available, spending 10-15 mins in each. Again, a very worthwhile and engaging session.
Overall, the time goes very quickly and the chance to experience the cars and activities was extremely good value. I was very impressed with the professionalism of the instructors and their stoicism of what must be some fairly ‘interesting’ driving styles from the participants. My recommendation would be to prepare a check list ahead of the day of what you’d like to experiment with on the handling circuit: manual gearbox comparisons vs PDK, PDK auto and ‘manual’ work using both the gear lever and steering wheel switches (and also trying the paddles if available). Then take a look at the sport and sport plus modes as well. I’d also like to experiment with disabling PSM, but perhaps initially this should be done somewhere with more room available.
If you have time available rides in the Panamera Turbo and off road in Cayenne are there for the taking. I used some time to get my eyes checked out (I’ve worn glasses for some time and wanted to chat about the best ways of getting the best possible prescription). It’s also worth making time for some caffeine injections whilst you are at the Centre. There’s also an area set up where you can take a look at the various interior options, and I found it interesting to chat to other participants to see what they thought of the Gen II 997 Turbo. There’s also a car with Bose Surround Sound fitted that you can try out inside the Centre.
997 Gen II Turbo guides and price lists were available in the Centre and all the staff were unfailingly polite and helpful throughout the day. My thanks go to everybody there.
My overall impression: I still prefer the manual gearbox, but I’m sure that the paddle PDK set-up would bear looking at more closely out on the road. I’d also like to learn more about the PSM, PTM and possibly PTV modes, together with sport and sport plus modes, to get a better understanding of how they each work and interact with each other.
A great day out, well done Porsche!
Last edited by Alex_997TT; Dec 2, 2009 at 09:22 AM.
I got the chance to track the new 997.2 Turbo from PMNA.
I am from the 'old school', so take this with a grain of salt.
I have a very different impression than the OP. My 997 Tips were not that different than the PDK version, except as a driver you have more control.
I am so used to 'heel and toeing', so that the PDK experience was frustrating for me. Also, I believe the engine and the car are not as 'stiff' as the 997.1 gen. Maybe old dogs can learn new tricks. But I love the ability to control a 6 speed transmission by modulation of throttle and manual downshifting. Should I go to the retirement home?
Also - I agree with the OP that my modified 997.1 Turbos and even my Ruf RTurbo have more power than 997.2 generation. I would add the Ruf is 20/20.
Thanks - Gerry
I am from the 'old school', so take this with a grain of salt.
I have a very different impression than the OP. My 997 Tips were not that different than the PDK version, except as a driver you have more control.
I am so used to 'heel and toeing', so that the PDK experience was frustrating for me. Also, I believe the engine and the car are not as 'stiff' as the 997.1 gen. Maybe old dogs can learn new tricks. But I love the ability to control a 6 speed transmission by modulation of throttle and manual downshifting. Should I go to the retirement home?
Also - I agree with the OP that my modified 997.1 Turbos and even my Ruf RTurbo have more power than 997.2 generation. I would add the Ruf is 20/20.
Thanks - Gerry
When I hold the downshift paddle (or button) the car will rev match with computerized precision . When braking it will downshift perfectly with no over rev possibility and to the most exact shift point of each lower gear . It is truly an amazing feature .
Some objective data to correlate with Alex's and Andy's excellent reviews. The data does support the reviews very well.
Alex I would like to place a link to this very good thread in other Porsche forums, PM me please if not OK.
>>>>>>
Porsche 997 Turbo's spring rate data. Source: "web research" :-) plus Excellence Magazine.
Unit in lbf/in (conversion factor 1 N/mm = 5.71 lbf/in).
Stock 997.1 Turbo:
Front: 206
Rear: 457 Linear
Stock 997.2 Turbo
Front: 206
Rear: 514 Progressive (342 initial, 514 final)
Bilstein Damptronic for 997 Turbo
Front: 285 Linear
Rear: 570 Linear
Helper springs 115 front, 145 rear (don't count towards rate).
Stock 996 TT:
Front: 187 Progressive
Rear: 340 Progressive
Alex I would like to place a link to this very good thread in other Porsche forums, PM me please if not OK.
>>>>>>
Porsche 997 Turbo's spring rate data. Source: "web research" :-) plus Excellence Magazine.
Unit in lbf/in (conversion factor 1 N/mm = 5.71 lbf/in).
Stock 997.1 Turbo:
Front: 206
Rear: 457 Linear
Stock 997.2 Turbo
Front: 206
Rear: 514 Progressive (342 initial, 514 final)
Bilstein Damptronic for 997 Turbo
Front: 285 Linear
Rear: 570 Linear
Helper springs 115 front, 145 rear (don't count towards rate).
Stock 996 TT:
Front: 187 Progressive
Rear: 340 Progressive
Last edited by cannga; Dec 3, 2009 at 09:51 AM.
I am so used to 'heel and toeing', so that the PDK experience was frustrating for me. Also, I believe the engine and the car are not as 'stiff' as the 997.1 gen. Maybe old dogs can learn new tricks. But I love the ability to control a 6 speed transmission by modulation of throttle and manual downshifting. Should I go to the retirement home?
Also - I agree with the OP that my modified 997.1 Turbos and even my Ruf RTurbo have more power than 997.2 generation. I would add the Ruf is 20/20
guys, my 2cents. gen1 tt is a great car out of the box but for some buyers it was too soft, clumsy, sat too high, suffered from understeer and sloppy turn in, had the f'ugliest wheels ever, annoying stock interior, and was snaggle toothed. what was great was an engine that can be easily modified to unbelieveable heights, sick brakes (pccb), and retarded straight line acceleration. if you are a tt owner and don't understand any of this, then by all means buy a gen2 and rejoice in the upwardly biased press reviews and marketing. however, if u DO agree with me, then u prob breathed a sigh of relief when u saw that porsche didn't do much to the exterior to make our gen1's obsolete (see gt3 rs!!!), and our $25k-50k spent on mods still give us a car that will dominate nearly any stock vehicle in the world and can kinda do ok on the track even tho that's where the true weaknesses of ANY awd turbo will come thru.
again, for u ***** out there who fall for this pdk/wet sump engine, gt-R like torque vectoring crap (those tt centerlock rims for how much $$? are u kidding me!), i can almost guarantee u when your stock gen2 is sitting next to my slammed gen1 on dymags with c/f and alcantara everywhere you'll be jealous of my ride, and when i blow u away on the track cause i'm STILL carrying more speed at the apexes despite having to heel toe... well, u kno what, don't even worry about it!
(in full disclosure i'm retiring my tt from track duty other than de's and moving to a 996 cup when i find the right car)
again, for u ***** out there who fall for this pdk/wet sump engine, gt-R like torque vectoring crap (those tt centerlock rims for how much $$? are u kidding me!), i can almost guarantee u when your stock gen2 is sitting next to my slammed gen1 on dymags with c/f and alcantara everywhere you'll be jealous of my ride, and when i blow u away on the track cause i'm STILL carrying more speed at the apexes despite having to heel toe... well, u kno what, don't even worry about it!
(in full disclosure i'm retiring my tt from track duty other than de's and moving to a 996 cup when i find the right car)
Can - you are very welcome to link to it from any other site, but please just don't copy my report there.
guys, my 2cents. gen1 tt is a great car out of the box but for some buyers it was too soft, clumsy, sat too high, suffered from understeer and sloppy turn in, had the f'ugliest wheels ever, annoying stock interior, and was snaggle toothed. what was great was an engine that can be easily modified to unbelievable heights, sick brakes (pccb), and retarded straight line acceleration. if you are a tt owner and don't understand any of this, then by all means buy a gen2 and rejoice in the upwardly biased press reviews and marketing. however, if u DO agree with me, then u prob breathed a sigh of relief when u saw that porsche didn't do much to the exterior to make our gen1's obsolete (see gt3 rs!!!), and our $25k-50k spent on mods still give us a car that will dominate nearly any stock vehicle in the world and can kinda do ok on the track even tho that's where the true weaknesses of ANY awd turbo will come thru.
again, for u ***** out there who fall for this pdk/wet sump engine, gt-R like torque vectoring crap (those tt centerlock rims for how much $$? are u kidding me!), i can almost guarantee u when your stock gen2 is sitting next to my slammed gen1 on dymags with c/f and alcantara everywhere you'll be jealous of my ride, and when i blow u away on the track cause i'm STILL carrying more speed at the apexes despite having to heel toe... well, u kno what, don't even worry about it!
again, for u ***** out there who fall for this pdk/wet sump engine, gt-R like torque vectoring crap (those tt centerlock rims for how much $$? are u kidding me!), i can almost guarantee u when your stock gen2 is sitting next to my slammed gen1 on dymags with c/f and alcantara everywhere you'll be jealous of my ride, and when i blow u away on the track cause i'm STILL carrying more speed at the apexes despite having to heel toe... well, u kno what, don't even worry about it!


yup!




