Review of Cargraphic Loud exhaust & an audiophile's guide :-) to exhaust auditioning.
#316
10-14-2013, 10:36 AM
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Leo, there is a long long history before you came here. I could more than defend any point here or anywhere I post (check my history), but argument here got heated and thread got derailed numerous times from the title. "Disruption" instead of discussion - the word was used. Bottom line: We've come to an agreement; don't be a troublemaker to stir things up.
I am glad you enjoyed your EP, but the fact is your severe hearing loss voids all your observations. Of course I am not critical of your handicap, just pointing out that your observation only applies to yourself, not to the general population. In other words, your conclusion that "EP is better than 4 others" has to be taken into context of someone who has severe hearing loss. It's like asking a blind man to judge the Sistine Chapel.
One example, you came here asking for a loud exhaust, then decided on EP. This decision was extremely puzzling to people here as although EP is a great exhaust, it's a quiet one. Then I found out you have severe hearing loss and I had sympathy for you. You were not just some crazy kid and a Lambo poseur (kidding), but were just really expressing what your flawed hearing told you.
I don't need to go into details but I do have intimate experience with hearing loss and hearing aid, although temporary and not permanent like yours, so no need to tell me I don't understand or I am picking on someone's handicap.
I am glad you enjoyed your EP, but the fact is your severe hearing loss voids all your observations. Of course I am not critical of your handicap, just pointing out that your observation only applies to yourself, not to the general population. In other words, your conclusion that "EP is better than 4 others" has to be taken into context of someone who has severe hearing loss. It's like asking a blind man to judge the Sistine Chapel.
One example, you came here asking for a loud exhaust, then decided on EP. This decision was extremely puzzling to people here as although EP is a great exhaust, it's a quiet one. Then I found out you have severe hearing loss and I had sympathy for you. You were not just some crazy kid and a Lambo poseur (kidding), but were just really expressing what your flawed hearing told you.
I don't need to go into details but I do have intimate experience with hearing loss and hearing aid, although temporary and not permanent like yours, so no need to tell me I don't understand or I am picking on someone's handicap.
Last edited by cannga; 10-14-2013 at 11:02 AM.
#317
10-14-2013, 11:55 AM
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Cannga,
If you don't like EP is ok we have to agree to disagree... Everybody has different taste but we don't have to be enemies because we like different exhausts... I'm glad we are not talking about Football!!! People will die in here...
Stop pushing for Speed21 to get banned it doesn't look right... We are MEN no high school girls... The Principal doesn't have to get involve in our "stupid fights"
If you don't like EP is ok we have to agree to disagree... Everybody has different taste but we don't have to be enemies because we like different exhausts... I'm glad we are not talking about Football!!! People will die in here...
Stop pushing for Speed21 to get banned it doesn't look right... We are MEN no high school girls... The Principal doesn't have to get involve in our "stupid fights"
#318
10-14-2013, 12:13 PM
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Cannga,
You are right, i served 4 years in the Marines (1 year in Afghanistan) and my hearing is not very good but it's good enough to know EP1 was louder, better sound and felt more powerful than:
-Fabspeed
-911tuning no cats!
-Techart
I have nothing bad to say about CG exhaust because I never had it but I hear it and I just didn't like it... It was loud but it sound like a UPS truck....
We have or had in my case, the same amazing car in different colors.... That means we have to fight and humiliate each other because of that?
You are right, i served 4 years in the Marines (1 year in Afghanistan) and my hearing is not very good but it's good enough to know EP1 was louder, better sound and felt more powerful than:
-Fabspeed
-911tuning no cats!
-Techart
I have nothing bad to say about CG exhaust because I never had it but I hear it and I just didn't like it... It was loud but it sound like a UPS truck....
We have or had in my case, the same amazing car in different colors.... That means we have to fight and humiliate each other because of that?
#319
10-14-2013, 01:08 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254 I have nothing bad to say about CG exhaust because I never had it but I hear it and I just didn't like it... It was loud but it sound like a UPS truck....
We have or had in my case, the same amazing car in different colors.... That means we have to fight and humiliate each other because of that?
We have or had in my case, the same amazing car in different colors.... That means we have to fight and humiliate each other because of that?
Please don't pull the "humiliation handicap card" on me; I am your most sympathetic listener having once share the same handicap (why do you think I have never brought this up until now?). I am merely, per your request, discussing this openly: and the fact is that because of your hearing loss, what you hear although valid, doesn't apply to the rest of the population.
I do think that your opinion is simply based on what others are writing and that's why you go through 4 exhausts with some of the most bewildering explanations ever seen on 6speed, then finally picked the most quiet exhaust as your choice for loud; which is fine, to me you are just a kid having fun. But let's see, don't own a Turbo anymore, Lambo owner, in here trying to stir up trouble, spamming every thread with "I've had 4 exhausts" - doesn't that make you a troll? Could we move on please, there has been entirely too much drama on my poor thread; you back to the Lambo forum, please?
Last edited by cannga; 10-14-2013 at 01:19 PM.
#321
10-14-2013, 03:01 PM
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As you were
Jan Pat, sorry you did not run across this outstanding audiophile thread. I mentioned this issue on the first page I believe. There is one situation that I would recommend that buyers stay away from medium loud exhaust, and that is yours: An automatic Turbo. In a tiptronic Turbo, you can't control the cruising rpm, and if you (generic you) cruise at the rpm of 2000-2800, you are dead duck. In this situation, I would recommend any number of quieter exhausts, such as Cargraphic Quiet (TUV version), EP1, Tubi. The only problem with getting a quiet exhaust, is of course, it's quiet and tends to have very little to non existing deep throat rumble. Inside cabin, you would hear even less. If that's your preference, great. If not, it's a waste of money and you will forever yearn for more exciting or louder sound. Vendors sometimes would scream: "loud, deep throaty sounding, NO drone" to sell products, but the knowledgeable ones will know that no such thing exists, and that if you want a loud, exciting exhaust, it might be a problem with automatic Turbo's if you cruise at 2500 rpm; better off staying with a more quiet exhaust in this situation. BTW, there is an explanation for why a loud exhaust is expected to drone more in the 2500 rpm range. How does a loud, deep throaty exhaust become loud? By blocking less sound: blocking less the deep throaty component and letting it through, blocking less the drone component and letting it through. This is the reason why one should never believe any salesman (kidding, kidding ) screaming "loud exhaust, deep throaty sound, no drone." I wouldn't until I hear one in person and I bet I would a crack in the sales pitch; exhaust design has been around for years and I don't expect anyone to break the law of physics ;-).
thread. I mentioned this issue on the first page I believe. There is one situation that I would recommend that buyers stay away from medium loud exhaust, and that is yours: An automatic Turbo. In a tiptronic Turbo, you can't control the cruising rpm, and if you (generic you) cruise at the rpm of 2000-2800, you are dead duck. In this situation, I would recommend any number of quieter exhausts, such as Cargraphic Quiet (TUV version), EP1, Tubi. The only problem with getting a quiet exhaust, is of course, it's quiet and tends to have very little to non existing deep throat rumble. Inside cabin, you would hear even less. If that's your preference, great. If not, it's a waste of money and you will forever yearn for more exciting or louder sound. Vendors sometimes would scream: "loud, deep throaty sounding, NO drone" to sell products, but the knowledgeable ones will know that no such thing exists, and that if you want a loud, exciting exhaust, it might be a problem with automatic Turbo's if you cruise at 2500 rpm; better off staying with a more quiet exhaust in this situation. BTW, there is an explanation for why a loud exhaust is expected to drone more in the 2500 rpm range. How does a loud, deep throaty exhaust become loud? By blocking less sound: blocking less the deep throaty component and letting it through, blocking less the drone component and letting it through. This is the reason why one should never believe any salesman (kidding, kidding ) screaming "loud exhaust, deep throaty sound, no drone." I wouldn't until I hear one in person and I bet I would a crack in the sales pitch; exhaust design has been around for years and I don't expect anyone to break the law of physics ;-).
#322
10-14-2013, 05:22 PM
I'd like to thank all of those who contributed early on to this thread. It has been one of the longest running threads on the 997TT subsection and has provided invaluable information about the exhaust options available.
As of late, it has simply gone to hell. I'm simply amazed at how discussions fall to pieces on this forum. It's not simply what you are saying, it's how you are saying it.
Be courteous. The mods really don't want to intervene on this thread, nor do we want to drag members through an intervention.
Thanks.
As of late, it has simply gone to hell. I'm simply amazed at how discussions fall to pieces on this forum. It's not simply what you are saying, it's how you are saying it.
Be courteous. The mods really don't want to intervene on this thread, nor do we want to drag members through an intervention.
Thanks.
#323
10-14-2013, 06:09 PM
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Wow, this went south in a hurry.
For the record, all of these exhausts are too expensive, no one is better than another, it's all a matter of individual tastes.
Can has created a very helpful thread, trust me I've had many disagreements with him over the years, some very heated
Life's too short to be dogmatic and argumentative about our little hobby.
Thanks for a good thread, hope I didn't derail it!
C
For the record, all of these exhausts are too expensive, no one is better than another, it's all a matter of individual tastes.
Can has created a very helpful thread, trust me I've had many disagreements with him over the years, some very heated
Life's too short to be dogmatic and argumentative about our little hobby.
Thanks for a good thread, hope I didn't derail it!
C
#324
10-14-2013, 08:31 PM
#325
10-15-2013, 09:28 AM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254
#326
10-15-2013, 09:53 AM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254 Yeah, why do we have to fight and humiliate each other?
Please don't pull the "humiliation handicap card" on me; I am your most sympathetic listener having once share the same handicap (why do you think I have never brought this up until now?). I am merely, per your request, discussing this openly: and the fact is that because of your hearing loss, what you hear although valid, doesn't apply to the rest of the population.
I do think that your opinion is simply based on what others are writing and that's why you go through 4 exhausts with some of the most bewildering explanations ever seen on 6speed, then finally picked the most quiet exhaust as your choice for loud; which is fine, to me you are just a kid having fun. But let's see: don't own a Turbo anymore, Lambo owner, in here trying to stir up trouble, spamming every thread with "I've had 4 exhausts" - doesn't that make you a troll ? Could we move on please, there has been entirely too much drama on my poor thread; you back to the Lambo forum, please?
Please don't pull the "humiliation handicap card" on me; I am your most sympathetic listener having once share the same handicap (why do you think I have never brought this up until now?). I am merely, per your request, discussing this openly: and the fact is that because of your hearing loss, what you hear although valid, doesn't apply to the rest of the population.
I do think that your opinion is simply based on what others are writing and that's why you go through 4 exhausts with some of the most bewildering explanations ever seen on 6speed, then finally picked the most quiet exhaust as your choice for loud; which is fine, to me you are just a kid having fun. But let's see: don't own a Turbo anymore, Lambo owner, in here trying to stir up trouble, spamming every thread with "I've had 4 exhausts" - doesn't that make you a troll ? Could we move on please, there has been entirely too much drama on my poor thread; you back to the Lambo forum, please?
You've had the last word here and volunteered to leave. Please have the self respect and courtesy to keep your promise and NEVER post in my thread again. If you do, that's harrassment and ground for banning. Banning as you could imagine is quite a bit more humiliating than our little exchange because you carry that stigma with you "forever." I do think of you as a nice person and don't wish that on you.
In time if anyone likes, I will explain while some people are "selected" and welcome to leave my thread, but not now as this is a heated exchange already and I don't want to create any more drama per supermod bbywu's recommendation. Suffice it to say, it would be the same reason as why mods ban someone from 6speed.
Last edited by cannga; 10-15-2013 at 10:46 AM.
#327
10-15-2013, 02:24 PM
#328
10-15-2013, 05:29 PM
I'm not going to play favorites on this thread, I try and treat all members equally, and have to be pushed pretty hard before I toss anyone from the forum. That being said, I'd like to make two suggestions as ground rules for future posts. These are suggestions, as it is not my thread.
1. What constitutes harassment? Harassment encompasses wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behavior intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. This is completely subjective. One person's idea of a conversation and debate, is another member's idea of harassment. Unfortunately this will fall on the moderators to decide.
Keep the rhetoric to a minimum. If the debate degenerates into name calling, , or baiting members to post something that gets them banned, or taunting, I will take action. This behavior should never be tolerated.
2. Use factual information - if no factual information is available, then what you are posting is an OPINION. As we are all entitled to our opinions, respect your fellow member, their opinions, and if necessary, agree to disagree.
Can, I would suggest re-inviting all members to post on any thread, provided they agree to the above.
1. What constitutes harassment? Harassment encompasses wide range of behaviours of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behavior intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. This is completely subjective. One person's idea of a conversation and debate, is another member's idea of harassment. Unfortunately this will fall on the moderators to decide.
Keep the rhetoric to a minimum. If the debate degenerates into name calling, , or baiting members to post something that gets them banned, or taunting, I will take action. This behavior should never be tolerated.
2. Use factual information - if no factual information is available, then what you are posting is an OPINION. As we are all entitled to our opinions, respect your fellow member, their opinions, and if necessary, agree to disagree.
Can, I would suggest re-inviting all members to post on any thread, provided they agree to the above.
#330
10-15-2013, 09:53 PM
Agreed and I think the other thread should still be opened regarding EP vs Kline as I posted factual info and the same rule should apply