Hi Casey, I am sure you compared the pressure drop of your intercooler versus the stock intercooler? Is there a difference?

I am under the impression that after-market intercoolers reduce temp more efficiently mainly by increasing net area of tubes. This increase in area causes larger pressure drop across the intercooler and is the reason why performance may suffer. In other words, do larger after market intercoolers inherently have more restriction, and this equals more pressure drop/loss?? Is it not true? Any pro/expert would like to chime in, I would appreciate it (I am totally new to this and just want to learn here.).

The benefits of reduction of charge air density and less likelihood of detonation must therefore be balanced against the disadvantage of more restriction?

 

Can, we addressed this awhile ago when i made some very bold claims regarding our new hybrid intercoolers. If you use a traditional tube fit and punch it out to 5+ inches it will not be efficient... We went the hybrid route to bring the best of both worlds as I pointed out in this thread.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ket-today.html

 

Casey I just went through the TPC thread you quoted, and couldn't find any discussion related to my question, which is whether you compared pressure drop of yours versus stock?

Not trying to put TPC intercooler on the spot at all (you just happened to be on this thread :-)), just wonder if this concept apply to all after-market intercoolers: That is, in larger after-market intercooloers, is there a risk that the larger area needed to reduce temp might lead to flow restriction and hence larger pressure drop?
Does this explain why one could see reducing power with larger intercoolers, unless the software is upgraded and properly matched to the intercooler as well?

 

Can, I have 5" ICs from Proto. They make them in house but work with TPC on cast endtanks. I was told by Todd K, that TPC has tested these and experienced between 60-80hp increase along with an 800 rpm increase in boost response over stock. The pressure drop was measured at less than 0.25psi at 900cfm. Dave

 

Pressure loss should drop with thicker cores as there is more surface area for the fluid to move through (other dimensions kept constant). The rub is when you lengthen the core in the direction of charge air; efficiency goes up but so does pressure loss. Since our cars have a set core length constrained by the rear bumper, we don't see this. The additional volume from the added thickness is negligible is terms of later boost threshold and usually greatly overcome by the reduction in pressure loss. This is exactly what you see on the lower end of the curve with TPC's intercoolers.

 

I switched from AWE coolers to Protomotive 4.5" and i didn't noticed any lag.

 

We are actually responsible for the core and the end tanks, Todd welds them together.

Glad you are enjoying them though!

 

They are very nice indeed. I highly recommend these for anyone thinking about upgrading their ICs.

 

Thanks everyone for the replies. I was just reading basic level intercooler info, hence all the noob questions. I recall reading flow efficiency is as important as thermal efficiency; that's why I was looking for the info on pressure drop. Academic interest really, as it seems everyone is making great power with after market intercoolers.

Earl, I think I understand what you are trying to say here.
1. The larger intercooler *could* cause delayed spool up, from later boost buildup? More volume for the charge air to fill?
2. The larger area in larger intercooler is spread over a larger volume, hence no worse pressure loss?

Re. number 2, I seem to recall AWE (?) posted a graph showing a small amount of pressure loss with larger intercoolers. So it seems there is some loss. How important? I have no idea! Let me search for that graph.

 

I was wrong again! mike designed the tanks as well, however Todd assembles them for us.

 

Got the 5 inch coolers from Todd K. Have the rest of the kit as well - full Proto system with k24/20gs.

I cannot detect lag in my set up, and that is partly due to the ICs.

In the UK the temparture is around 10C (cold!), and general crusing is around 15C for IAT with this set up. The max I see on 1.4/1.5bar is around 24C with these ICs at that AT. Even after 30 minutes hard driving, IATs do not rise about 22C. So they are working. I know that because my mates car has K24/18g with standard GT2 I/Cs. His IATs on the same AT at max are in the 40s, and take a long time to recover. He has heat soak.

There is no doubt in my mind that these coolers from Todd K (or from 911Tuning) do what they say.

I cannot tell if there has been a power loss from using the ICs since I did the complete install in one go. But prior to that I did installed B6s and noticed an increase in power, as well as better IATs.

No issues in recommending either Todd K or Marksi's ICs.

Ken

 

Hi Dave (or anyone who would like to chime in), questions pls and thanks in advance.

1. Is the 5" IC considered always better than 4.5? Or is it one of those things that epends on power level, for example 5" core for high power, 4.5 for low power, etc.?

2. If 5" is better than 4.5, then, why not, say, 5.5" core?

3. Could you elaborate on the "800 rpm increase in boost response over stock"? Boost at 4000 now equals boost at 4800??

 

Before we had the 127mm core we used a close to the off the shelf 4.5" core that was made by bell, Keep in mind that there are many more variables than IC thickness, such as # of rows, style of intercooler(bar-plate, tube-fin)...

We changed to our hybrid cores for the numerous reasons that I have mentioned previously in these forums.

I spoke with mike regarding your question on the pressure drop of our 127mm core vs the stock cooler and there are many variables to take into account... In the end it really would come down to a 3D graph showing many different variables. He invited you to call the shop and speak with him directly. I wont lie to you and tell you I know everything about intercoolers, I dont. But he does and if you want an education, he is your man. Or if you would like to do some studying, buy "maximum boost" by corky bell... Great read.

410-799-7223

 

Hi Can, It was explained to me that even though the 4.5" was an excellent cooler and many high power 996ts have them, the 5" was the new design boasting greater efficiency in flow and cooling (I don't have any hard data of my own). The 5" is a tight fit and I'm not sure you could fit a larger one very easily. As far as boost goes, my understanding is bascially what you wrote, that these ICs will reach max boost at about 800 rpm quicker than stock. I also wanted a pair of ICs that wouldn't be limited by 600 whp which I understand some aftermarket ones are. If you are interested in a set and more specific details, you can also contact Todd K. He'll give you the straight poop. Dave

 

Or Mike, as he designed them