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I took out a new, and slightly mod'ed Cayman today and I have to say It Was FUN!! Sure not as fast as a TT but it was a hoot to REALLY drive it. CxS will probably be even more fun.

 

it's a must see so got to youtube and type in rpassananti. You will see all of my videos and see what the GT-R did to me when I was on 91 octane andthen VP 109.

 

The 997S will run circles around the Turbo in tight corners . In fact both the Gt3 and Gt3 RS are BOTH slower than the Turbo Tip in a straight line but is still the car of choice for engaged driving. The normally aspirated platform with a more precise throttle along with the car's lighter weight make the 997S a competitor --it can bring on some strength that the Turbo lacks is handling. I do agree that the Turbo will beat it in a drag race or rolling start --but his question is about the 88K value in the used Tip and I just don't see it being the best of his choices at that price.

 

Comparing modified cars of different manufacturers is not the same of discussing the gearbox used on one specific car --The Porsche 997tt.

My discussion is not whether he will win or lose in one specific race but whther his 88K spect will give him his money's worth with a Tip Turbo . I feel it won't . I listed my reasons too.

And just FYI --Here's a stock 996tt versus a stock PDK 997.2S PDK. Not bad for a straight line contest and on twisties the 10 year old 996 Turbo may not do as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5BVmaU-Vvo

 

In real world driving the Turbo is a much better car. The GT3 while nice, is punishing over long trips. The 997 S, pdk or not, is not in the same league as a 997.1 Turbo. Your engaged driving analogy is completely up to preference, as I can select my gear satisfactorily and with great effect using my tip. The tip is by no means outperformed by its 6-speed counterpart in anyway in regards to performance (on or off the track). As far as "new technology" I'll stick with the antiquated old mezger GT1 engine as that thing is a tank. So essentially the guy who buys the new carerra C2S gets a more technologically advanced but slower, less powerful, non AWD car, lacking a kickass wing and PCCBs. I'll stick with my turbo. God forbid someone buys the 997.2 6-speed variant (talk about antiquated technology) because a Tip turbo will destroy that in acceleration (look at what happens to the slightly less powerful 997.1 C2S vs Tip turbo in the linked vid).

 

I bought a tip and some days I kick myself and other days I'm very happy with it...When stuck in traffic I praise my car! But when I think about upgrading my car's peformance in the future, I sometimes think I should have bought a manual...Sometimes the tip is kind of sluggish...I know there has been a couple of times I've pressed the damn button and nothing or delayed a few seconds causing it to rev higher than I wanted....Either way get what you want at the end of the day and be happy to just own a 997tt!

 

I have never had delays approaching seconds. A few seconds would seem like a problem.
-Getz

 

Since i have BOTH cars I will comment . I have also seen and posted that video because just as I can debate the merrits of the 997S and point out its strength there also is no denying that the Turbo also has strength .

The question is is his car worth 88K ? You already know my answer on that .

The Turbo will destroy the 997S in a staight line at the high end . It's greatest strength is the rolling start. Put that turbo into twisties against a PDK 997S and it will lose . Put it in agaist a 2010 Gt3 and it will be embarrased . The purest platform for the car is normally aspirated and that's why the base car , the 997S and Gt3 , and RS models are NA cars.
The Turbo is the luxury power car and in my debates with NA Porsche owners the hardest point to swallow for them is that after a hard day racing at the track they can pull next to a Turbo cab on the way home and lose . But they won't lose on the track . They won't lose on twisties.

As for daily driving . The Turbo front lip is very low . The 997S car isn't. The Turbo is wider and presents more ding exposure . The old PCM is awful and the new one is not as awful (but still bad) . As a daily driver the 997S PDK is the car I choose .

Having both cars makes me a fan of BOTH. I love the Turbo more than any car I ever had but I would not buya tiptronic and at 88K I feel that he ought to get his money's worth . If he is saving money and does not want to row gears .. PDK 997S. If he gets a manual it will cost him money to modify it .. so he may want to add that to his cost. But to buy a Tiptronic may look nice in a you tube video rolling start .. but he won't drive like that on the street and he faces all the other reasons why it's not the car to choose in my opinion.

 

I always enjoy reading the opinions of tip versus 6-speed. The 88k price tag seems fair to me based on the mileage. Would need to know color and condition too but that’s not far off if it’s pristine.
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I looked long and hard before I went with the 997tt. Drove both the 6spd and tip extensively before making my final decision. Additionally, all my sports cars up to that point had been 6spd. At the end of the day I decided on a tip. Price didn’t play a factor in the tip vs. 6spd. I got my color, options, low mileage, and condition. I don’t race on the track, don’t drive much in the twisties (yet), I just enjoy the heck out of the car. At the price I paid I knew it was simply about what I wanted. For me, this car with tip is perfect. I have never regretted my decision. The car is amazing to drive. Having all the silly power and not having to shift just fits my needs well. The 997 turbo is amazing in both setups. If you never found this website… you would likely never question how awesome either car is. The 997 turbo is an undeniable great car. Most people on this site are very in-tune with these vehicles, their potential, and truly prefer the 6spd. I totally respect that preference.
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PSTT03,
<O</O

You just brought back the thread to it's original question, and answered other debated issues at the same time. This particular vehicle is probably the lowest priced among the 997 turbos in its category(PCCB). Besides being equipped with the fabulous Ceramic brakes, the car ranks in the top 2% with it's very very low miles. The color was also a special color when ordered which adds extra points. Now this is a vehicle offered for sale by a dealer, so looking at the overall prices on tiptronics, the car beats most advertised cars with regular RED brakes and 10 to 15k more miles on the clocks. It also beats some of the privately advertised similar vehicle prices that come with NO PCCB. The OP could wait a week and see if the price will change however I have this feeling that this car will not last that much... <O</O

 

I think its a solid deal as I spent over 6 months looking for essentially the same car listed and found almost none priced similarily. The prices on the turbos have solidified post the 6600 Dow scare.

I think your dislike of the tip is somewhat over exagerrated, and on a track for most courses I highly doubt a stock 911 C2S will gain on a turbo, the power difference is huge and will make huge gains on straight portions of the track. A GT3 is a different beast all together. I can't comment in regards to purest car (I don't really know what the means) but the fastest car Porsche makes around a track is the GT2RS which, believe it or not, uses the mezger engine and no pdk. However, how many people in all honesty take their turbos to the track, and if so, what percentage of driving time is spent on the track? I would bet very very little. There is no stretch of road that I frequent where I can test the limits of handling of my Turbo, let alone a base Carerra. However, I enjoy the brisk acceleration every time I drive it. Plus it's nice to know that I can pull away from almost any car while simultaneously drinking a big gulp.

Out of curiosity, have you ever spent much time behind the wheel of a tip car? They really aren't bad. In regards to justifying 88 grand in terms of performance per dollar, you may want to expand your horizons past the C2S, as there are many cars which can match or exceed the 911 on the track for far far less. One of the fastest cars on my local track is a modified miata I will agree with you that the Turbo would not be my first choice for a track car, and I didn't buy it for that purpose. However as a fairly comfortable, highly capable and reliable performance car that can be driven daily it's pretty hard to find a fault. This boils down to the different strokes philosophy, and you will never catch me faulting you for your choice of car or its transmission. Enjoy.

-Getz

 

When "on the track" claims are made it would depend on which track. Test data certainly show both the Turbo and Gt2 cars do very well at the Nurburgring - but that conclusion is not applicable to every race on all tracks under all conditions.

This discussion has mostly centered on street practicality and price value. In a street comparison of daily driving either car gets the job of basic driving done but the new car has all the modern features (PDK, PCM ) and doesn't have the low front lip or wide fenders exposed for a grocery cart to ding.

I am not al all saying the Turbo isn't the faster car . It is --but NOT for every event.
It's not the more practical car . It's not inexpensive.

If he must have the Turbo then why not buy the new car ? It will have all the modern things and have PDK. It may depreciate less than the almost 4 year old car at priced at 90K and it will be new.

 

The new turbo will run you close to 160 grand. In four years it will be worth, just like the 4 year old Turbos now, in the 90s. A 4 year old turbo in the upper 80s, will in 4 years still be worth likely the low 50s. The used car in this instance, as in almost every instance with highend autos, offers the better value from a money standpoint.

As far as grocery carts, you are screwed either way. Those flared fenders are unlikely to garner any more damage than a non-wide bodied car. And they look badass.

I don't know how we became embroiled in the track discussion, but I agree every car has its place. You could get a lotus, a cup car, a motocross bike, or a Subaru, they all in their own right may be faster over certain tracks. The nurburgring is used by almost every major auto developer and is the benchmark for track testing. I understand that most tracks are short courses (my local one included) and are unlikely to let you stretch the legs of a 700hp engine, but that asided, the GT2RS will absolutely maul... MAUL a C2S around any track (assuming equal drivers).
On the brightside, I drive on city streets and back country roads, and I think the Turbo is brilliant. Hence why I cancelled my order on a 2010 911 C4S with PDK to get it instead.
-Getz

 

We don't know this. The old Turbo MSRP was lower than 160K so even if the depreciation is proportinal the used 2011 Turbo will be higher. Also Porsche cut production numbers on their cars after the 2009 debacle where they made so many cars that they were stuck with cars at the port because they could not sell them all.

 

Once the new generation Turbo hits, the prior one takes a hit. The Turbo S 996s held value better than the normal Turbo, but the MSRP was also much higher. Proportionally the production numbers between then and now are very similiar, and I would expect similiar rates of depreciation. Buying new in this segment is almost never a good financial move (fortunately most people who buy could care less).