Speed 21- In regards to your last post.

Let me first state that I find this set up, SACHS 2.5 is less comparable to a racing clutch as opposed to the stock clutch system. I have driven, and drive, a racing set up. And for me thats what it is for, the track. Not my cup of tea for my DD that sees 2-4 DE's a year.

a. The take up point was the first thing I noticed. It was closer to the floor board by several centimeters making engagement quicker following shifts.

b. I am not able to detect any difference in pedal weight. To me it's just like stock yielding a pleasurable DD experience.

c. " lots more grabbing "- an understatement. It is a " let's go now and quickly " sensation following engagement. This still being most pleasurable, I no longer notice the difference in take up points but I still sense this experience every time. This is similar to a racing set up.

ps. I 'll be on a short day drive, another 30-50 miles, on the local coastal highway today running 100 octane. I'll report if there are any negative issues.

 

Getz,

If you have any issues with your transmission, and your Porsche dealership is able to detect the APR software, I will refund you your money for the software 100%. APR states that their programming even in stock mode with the lock out feature activated is completely undetectable by any OEM diagnostic tools and I will be willing to put this in writing on your invoice upon request. The only way any Porsche dealership can detect the APR software is by using APR OBD2 cables, and having APR's patent Direct Port Programming software (DPP for short) on a laptop or desktop any the only way to gain access to these two items is to become an APR dealer.


Speed21

Most people who own 997TT that are interested in upgrading the power know that there are always a reaction to every action and that there are consequences for upgrading power to their vehicles.


For those considering APR Software.

Future upgrades only require an upgraded disc and plate for 6 speed manual cars. The stock clutch is absolutely terrible and depending on how much city driving you do versus highway driving and how many track events you do, running stock software you can expect to replace your clutch as soon as 20 thousand miles.

Owners who have tip cars, no other upgrades are necessary.


6speed guys wondering about clutch effects after upgrading. Your clutch pedal will not be any stiffer after upgrading the disc and plate. If anything maybe 5 to 10 percent if that. If you run the GT2 Slave conversion at the same, you can expect a much stiffer pedal but a nice low and consistant engagement point every time.

 

Thanks for the input Bob.



As for the discussion about clutches, I have addressed this question regarding APR software and that if you have a manual car you will eventually need to upgrade from your stock clutch disc and palte, if your interested in how different clutches feel or any general questions period about clutches please start another thread and discuss there and I would gladly add any input I have for you.

I really would like to keep this about APR software.

Thanks.

 

Thanks tclayj. Pm me on the outcome of that drive if you dont mind, as Matthew wants no more talk on clutches and tip boxes on his APR thread.

And your account was great info definately relevant to this discussion imo given a clutch upgrade is a necessity with this APR tune.

Thanks for the clutch requirement info matthew .

Thanks and no problem Matthew. My clutch questions are resolved so will no longer ask any more questions on clutches.

 

Hi Skand. Was it you that said ICs (and turbos etc) are not required for APR tune to be reliable? Didn't someone say earlier that adding IC's may require a re tune of software?

 

Well oh my! Yesterday was not a typical trip down the coast. Matt, this is about APR and for Speed 21 my SACHS 2.5 clutch.

Running 100 octane with my new clutch set up was very different. The clutch was flawless. Needless to say, I drove very aggressively for the 1st time with the new clutch. Matt, I sware that the APR program adjusted to the new clutch response- on the fly! I noticed a big difference on 93 octane and attributed it all to the clutch upgrade, lower engagement, more grab and go etc. But I never drove aggressively on 93 octane, never more than 1/2 throttle. Matt, I know my car. It was different this time. I have driven monster upgrades at the track and could'nt wait to test the new set up. It felt like, well similar, to one of them. The APR program was different, a heightened awareness and more response to throttle. If I didnt know better there was more torque and longer pull times. Matt, I truly believe that the program adapted and evolved. Its a beast, granted not a 850hp monster but a lot for just a few mods.- tune/exhaust/clutch.

 

Well,you seem to be the expert here so you might be aware that any turbo car with any tuning file will benefit from better ICs...Especialy in repeated accelerations in hot climates...As for re tune of software,no it is not needed...

 

[quote=tclayj;2896925]Well oh my! Yesterday was not a typical trip down the coast. Matt, this is about APR and for Speed 21 my SACHS 2.5 clutch.

quote]

Thanks again tclayj. Great info. Seems you are are very impressed with the new clutch set up with the tune heh. After hearing that i'll get a 764 (stage 2.5/3) priced up and do the same. No sense waiting by sound of things.

Skand If i knew the answers i wouldnt have asked you so no need to be smart. I am only endeavoring to find out as much as possible about this tune and would appreciate quality answers that can be substantiated. Loose comments are meaningless to me. I like facts. In hindsight i shouldn't have asked you for anything given the ongoing inconsistancies surrounding your claims and your repeated assurances to provide data...which never materialised.

I wont trouble you again unless absolutely necessary. And no need responding to this or any of my future posts thanks.

I will refer all my future questions to Matthew and any others that have demonstrated they are at least able to respond with formal data and "more reliable" information when called upon. That way hopefully i may obtain more knowledge about this amazingly powerfull tune (865nm) and, for the benefit of all others who may also share my interest.

I recall reading previous posts indicating turbos and intercoolers are not required nor are of any benefit with this APR tune. Also that the setting of the tune is geared to using the stock I/coolers and turbos alone. If i am wrong or mistaken, i appologise in advance.

This thread has been going on for a long time now and over 3 separate threads and i was only hoping to fast track clarification regarding what you are now saying without having to trawl back in time....thats all. Sorry to trouble you.

 

Matthew will the APR tune function better with AM I/C's and Turbos?

Does the APR tune require re setting to accomodate for changing these components?

Will the car perform any better if larger intercoolers and/or turbos are later installed?

Does the APR "One tune setting" change at all when sports chrono is activated. ie; is the throttle (pedal) sensitivity any different at all from the normal mode and, is there any possibility the car can produce a better time if the sports chrono mode is selected?

I am currently making investigations into the stock tiptronic gearbox's hp and torque parameters and am hoping to be able to provide some firm data here soon. Will advise.

 

Well,you asked ME and I answered you...Once again you did not like my answer...Have in mind that this thread is about APR tune and I happen to have it in my car,so i might be able to answer some questions regarding this tune...as for ICs ask any Engineer you like to find out IAT role to hp and torque...Proof for my performance is my 60-130 time...
P.S. intercoolers and turbos are two totally different parts...there is no relation between them...Exhausts,intakes and ICs are all helping a car produce more power and torque without any need to reprogram ECU...(the only exemption is if cats are removed so they should be set in the flash to avoid CEL...)Changing turbos on the other hand leads by definition to reflashing,in order to get the most out of the new turbo setting and to keep engine run at a safe a/f ratio,EGT,etc...

 

Speed 21-When I change to Sport Mode there is increased throttle response. I believe the timing is slightly advanced- idles slightly higher, about a 100 rpm's. My comment on boost- the maximal dash reading stays the same, however, boost response is sooner/quicker. Hope this helps. I really cannot respond to boost levels/hp/torque as absolute numbers because I do not have the testing equiptment. My comments are based soley on my personal experience. I am looking foward to seeing additional DATA/ VBox/ or Dyno results regarding the APR tune.

 

I agree with you...at sport mode throttle response is better and the car feels less laggy...Boost is always the same...Vbox had a difference of about 0,4-0,5sec from 100-200 with sport on and off...so there should be an hp/kgm difference...

 

Thanks. Interesting what you say on the throttle response and timing in SC mode being different to normal. I recall Matthew previously stating APR had only the one tune setting for the both modes. Perhaps he can check this with APR and confirm. Will also await data.

 

Re stock tiptronic gearbox torque rating. After making an enquiry with MKB Germany they have provided me the following info:

MKB quote stock tip max rating at 700nms. (note APR tune claims 865nms).

MKB is a German company specializing in power upgrades for the 997tt tiptronic gearbox (and Benz) so logically their facts specifying maximum torque rating for this transmission would be correct given any upgrade is always benchmarked off the standard maximum rating.

After MKB modification, maximum rating is increased to 1300nms. This rating provides an adequate safety margin between the max torque of the engine so to provide reliablility of the mission and use of the power the engine is capable of producing.

A current 6speed thread on tiptronic with high hp and torque numbers similar to APR https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...build-log.html.

There are also other threads on the topic of tiptronic issues from tune upgrades for those that wish to further search this topic.

Based upon the above facts it would be advisable for anyone wishing to use a tune producing torques beyond the manufacturers maximum stock limmits to have their transmission upgraded if they wanted reliabilty and longevity.

This is proof positive the tiptronic gearbox is in the same predicament as the manual car which requires a clutch upgrade (except far more expensive to do than the manual g/b).

So, to get the best out of the APR tune and to ensure reliability of the car it is logical given the stock torque rating of 700nms that upgrades are inevitable at one point.

It also stands to reason that if skandalis's car is in fact pulling 130 to 200 in 6.44 sec (slightly faster than cars which produce more hp yet with same or only marginally more torque) then the tip gearbox is going to be running on borrowed time.

As tclayj has just pointed out, his car has never driven better and felt more powerfull since upgrading his clutch. That is my next step and my stock clutch isnt dealing with 865nms. I figure why wait for the inevitable.

 

It also stands to reason that if skandalis's car is in fact pulling 130 to 200 in 6.44 sec (slightly faster than cars which produce more hp yet with same or only marginally more torque) then the tip gearbox is going to be running on borrowed time.

My car has a verified run of 60-130 at 6,48sec...So PLEASE stop saying "if my car is in fact doing this time" You should spend more time commenting your car than trying to manipulate my time.Thank you.Also please keep a note that my tip is fine without any slipping issues after many miles with the tune...