My experience mirrors yours (and quite a few others here who have had both cars, it seems). First time I test drove the GT2, my heart was broken. In comparison to the GT2, my Turbo's steering has no feel or feedback and the handling is very sloppy because of the excessive weight transfer (the car leans and dives and squats way too much). I then installed Bilstein, thinking I was set for life.

Then I drove a 2010 GT3 in a mountain road back to back with my Turbo, and again almost wanted to sell my Turbo. Thankfully, with the stiffer spring, the car now has much better steering feel and chassis control and I am a happy camper because of that.

To be fair, the soft Turbo is a better daily driver. But really, if it's a weekend car, GT2 without a doubt. I do think that Porsche errs too much to the soft side with the Turbo and actually don't recommend the Turbo without a proper coilover change.

 

Since the Turbo S has PTV standard, Dont you think that would help handling considerably compared to the regular TT?

 

My problem with the Turbo S is the PDK. I really wish they made a 6 speed. I'm getting a tubo soon and would only get a 6 speed. I have a PDK now in mt C2S Cabrio, but thats a cabrio. I also think the GT2 ride might be a bit too firm all the time for me. Sometimes it's nice to go on a drive and not feel every bump.

Either way they are great cars you will enjoy either car.

 

Thanks everyone for all your input. The GT2 sold, but I really want a six speed, so I think I'm going to get a Turbo and not a Turbo S and then tighten up the suspension as recommended by one of the respondents.

 

Turbo with sport mode on adds to rear wheel bias..and it is noticeable.
The stock suspension has a great balance when you think about it for sloppy streets roads, one of the only Super Cars ever manufactured that you can drive all day every day and not chip your teeth or have your **** go numb...

 

Before I go on, let me re-emphasize that it's a trade-off and personal preference issue, ride vs. handling. As much as I love the GT2's, and especially GT3's, incredibly sharp reflex, the Turbo is a better daily driver due to its comfort. (My dream garage is still a Turbo + GT3 combination.)

Regarding the question, does PTV help? Not that much. PTV works by applying brake to inside corner of rear wheel in certain situations, to help the car rotates in corners and be faster. In other words, it affects oversteer behavior, actually increasing oversteer in corners in certain situations. 4wd car inherently understeers (related to slip angle, a driven wheel has more slip angle, this is the front wheel of a 4wd system), so this helps.

The main problem with the Turbo is weight transfer, both front/back (dives with braking, squats with acceleration), and side/side (body roll). The major determinants of this are: springs, damper, and sway bar. Although they realize the design flaw of 997.1 Turbo (too soft) and correct in 997.2 Turbo by stiffening sway bar and rear spring, the car is still targeted towards dentists (kidding, hold the missiles ) and is still a very soft car. That is, in comparison to other "sports" cars, for those with taste similar to mine, etc., etc.

But... problems of the Turbo could be easily erradicated: Stiffer springs will take car of weight transfer, and if you use a coilver system, you could adjust this to anything your heart desires.
Understeer behavior could be decreased by front camber and very very slight front toe out (not for everyone).
In other words, nothing that a competent, experienced alignment shop cannot do, in one day work. (BTW, now more so than ever, I believe no rookie tech should ever be allowed to touch suspension work -- this combination has created outright dangerous problems with coilover installment, be it KW, Bilstein, Moton, or whatever.)
Sorry I digress, anyway the point is with the correction, the Turbo could become the epitome of a daily driver. I love mine and have not driven anything better, for a daily driver that is.

 

Im inclined to agree with your account of things here Serp that there are no flies on the stock suspension set up. The 997tt has basically been designed by P as no compromise street demon with its stock suspension set up. Sure the new .2 is a bit better sorted (to be expected being a newer iteration)but thats not to say the .1 is crap. Thats just being plain silly. It was more than good enough at the time for P to put the car to the market and those guys sure did their testing at the time.

The GT2 and 3 are both compromised where street use is concerned although both being superior track weapons... no question. Horses for course they say. Ive read and heard a lot of negative remarks over the past few years about the 997tt being depicted as some kind of clumsy ponderous car (by some, not all) but in reality that is far from the truth. These remarks have generally come about from journos that have tested the car on a race track but then the story changes once the car is punted fast on regular roads. As a road car, which it was designed to be, and in the hands of an experienced driver a stock suspension 997tt will be very hard to shake on the road. Ive kept my suspension stock with exception of having GT3 LFCA's and a track/street alignment set up and i have no problems keeping pace with pretty well anything through twisties and have shaken cars off with stiffer chassis set ups. Unlike the track which is nice and smooth in the corners and no bumps and lumps, the stock suspension behaves better on most road environments where the surfaces are not so even. The stock suspension is more compliant and confidence inspiring than a stiff set up like what i had with my last s which had a really good coil over set up particularly on street driving. Track is a different story, yes....but again depending on the track surface. With the right alignment and camber set up the game changes again....but mainly changes for the better during track use .

OP It really comes down to where you plan to do most of your driving. The street or track? Is it a daily driver or a weekend car you just take out for a high speed blast on an early Sunday morning. That will be your logical deciding factor.

 

I would think the S model would be the superior car in most peoples hands and would definately be a better all around car for real world use, street and track, and unless your an expert level driver you would probably be faster in the PDK at the track then with the GT2 as well. I think its only a matter of time until the PDK dual clutch type automatic transmissions are going to be the only choice in these elite supercars, so you might as well get used to it. They are proving quite worthy in some of the worlds fastest cars, Ferrari, Lambo, GTR, and now Porsche and they seem to be the fastest ones in all the models using them. There pretty nice in bumper to bumper traffic like we have regularly here in the Northeast as well!

 

I agree with Serpent and Speed 21 the stock suspension is just fine for a street occ track car. Pro drivers can hustle a stock turbo around the track pretty damn fast and smoothly. One should take a sobering look in the mirror at their own driving skilz, or lack of, if they're having that much trouble driving the car. I would strongly suggest PSDS or other like top driving schools.
As to the OP, get the GT2 if you can. It's not even in the same league as a regular wet turbo.

 

I'm browsing for a Turbo S. If I didn't have young children that like driving in my current 4S, I might do the GT2. I'm also more excited about fast starts and the Turbo S delivers on acceleration like no other.

 

The argument here seems to be that I am wrong because the stock 997.1 Turbo is an incredibly fast car. Please remember I agree with that completely: the 997.1 Turbo is very fast as is. Its ring time of 7:52 is the fastest in the world for a daily driver, still.

However --- my point is this: Given that stupendous power, could the stock Turbo be much better? And the answer is, without a doubt, yes, both subjectively and objectively. Objectively, the revised 997.2 Turbo beats the 997.1 by a rumored 10 seconds at the ring, this is a lifetime of difference, even given the fact that 997.2 has a more powerful engine, and PDK may or may not be a factor. I was very sad when I read this.

I know that some people (not Paul ha - ha) get upset because of my criticism of the Turbo's stock suspension. Please don't take it so personal; your taste is fine and I am not criticizing it. That said, I will continue to state my observation and be very critical, not of anyone's perception, but of the excessive weight transfer of the Turbo, which is a fact, whether I look at myself in the mirror or not.
Porsche recognized the mistake they made with 997.1 Turbo and IIRC even acknowledged the softness criticism in one of the mag interviews when 997.2 came out. So I am not alone. It is why 997.2 Turbo has both stiffer spring and stiffer sway bar than 997.1. Whether I look at myself in the mirror or not is irrelevent, this fact is.

When I had a 3 hour test drive in LA canyons and was switching back and forth between the Turbo and GT3: The Turbo would blow away the 3 in the straight, but any curve, low speed, high speed, any speed, Turbo was left in the dust by GT3 -- brutal. I would encourage anyone to test drive the GT3 for the education of it. Not just drive, but drive safely at the limits - you cannot tell a car's behavior unless you test at limits. If you're like me, your heart will be broken; there is a huge difference in subjective feel between the 2 cars. In addition, pay close attention to the comments of people who have owned both GT2 and Turbo here. (PM them for opinions. They might be too shy to be too brutal publicly. )
The point is NOT to make the Turbo a GT3, that would be pointless. It is to make the Turbo a "better" car, relatively (LOL). This means stiffer springs, or KW or Bilstein for street, Moton for track.

 

The Traqmate data acquisition system makes a wonderful Christmas present for anyone having trouble driving the Turbo on the track. I would strongly suggest data acquisition and a driving school to anyone before jumping into major suspension modifications. The data can really be eye opening.

 

^^^But... a data acquisition system plus a pair of stiffer springs make even better gift. Just kidding. Again, the question is not whether the Turbo is fast, but whether it could be made faster and better, regardless of driving skill, and still be a good daily driver.

Anyone with any doubt, don't take my words, don't trust me. Test drive the 2 cars, or PM the dual-owners or tuners (AWE, Sharkwerks, GMG, TPC, Champion, etc.) here.

 

Thanks so much to all for your detailed and very informative reviews
Driving around the Nurburgring gave me immense respect for the GT's
My big S is not quite as agile
The first thought that popped into my mind when opening up on the Autobahn was...my kingdom for a stiffer front suspension

 

Thanks everyone for all the feedback and recommendations. This will be my first 911 (but I doubt my last). I'm going to get a 6 speed Turbo in GT Silver / black because I feel like I am going to drive this car almost every day on the street, and maybe two or three times a year on the track. I'm sure at some point I will also have a 911 GT in the garage as well at some point.

I'll post a pic as soon as it arrives in the driveway.