the biggest advantage of the GT3 is cornering and the intoxicating sound (nothing like NA engines).

the biggest advantage of the Turbo is straightline speed and the 2 additional seats (kids, girls etc.).

 

Cannga, great information in these excerpts (and in your signature). I am surprised that the 2010 3.8L is less robust than the 2007 3.6L. I read somewhere that producing Metzger blocks became too expensive for Porsche - Are all the 2007-09 3.6L Metzger engines? Are the 2010-12 engines less reliable?

-When I drove the 2007 TT, the SPORT setting was OFF. If I have it ON, can the turbo lag, acceleration, sound noticeably improve?...
-Can the SPORT setting be engaged all the time?...
-It's not clear how Porsche claims the 10 second rule for the torque increase In SPORT mode. How is that 10 seconds allocated: Is that in one acceleration cycle with several gear shifts? In same gear?...
-What is "refresh" interval between multiple acceleration/brake/ acceleration cycles?...

 

Gen 1 997tt and the gen 2 tts; totally different animals.
The tts needs absolutely nothing, remember it runs the ring in 7:32, the gt2 is only 1 second faster, 7:31. Still faster than any gt3. Strangely, the gen 2 tt (non s, 6mt) could only muster a 7:48, almost ten seconds slower than the gen 1 turbo.
Enjoy the car!

 

Chris, are you sure the 2010 TT is ~10 seconds slower than a 2007 TT?...
I have the Automobile issue with Walter Röhrl's lap times from the 'Ring:

911 Carrera: 8:05
911 Carrera S: 7:56
911 Turbo (2008): 7:50
911 GT3 (2008) 7:45
911 GT3 (2010) 7:40
911 GT2 (2008) 7:32

New numbers from you:
911 Turbo (2010): 7:48
911 Turbo S (2010): 7:32

I am only getting a 2 second difference between the 2007 and 2010 TT. The TTS is more than I am willing to spend. It's going to have to be a 997.1 or a 997.2 TT.

 

Not sure anyone has mentioned this but one big difference with the two variants is the gearing. If you plan on tracking your Pcar then I would say go with the 3, its got much better gearing for the track. Believe it or not the 2000rpm advantage of the 3 is also a huge favorable advantage on the track. Lastly, you cannot go wrong with either choice, I love my TT and would love to add a 3 soon

 

actually IIRC the gearing of the 997 tt and GT3 is almost identical in the .1 versions. Not sure if they changed for the .2 versions

 

1. GT2: same power but 300 lbs lighter, stiffer & lower suspension, R compound tire, and you think it's ony 1 second faster than Turbo S on 8 minute course? Is there a published test by neutral third party yet?
This is the time I've found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times<TABLE style="FONT-SIZE: 90%" id=sortable_table_id_0 class="wikitable sortable"><TBODY><TR><TD>20,832 m (68,346 ft)</TD><TD>7:41.23</TD><TD>Porsche 911 Turbo S</TD><TD>Sascha Bert</TD><TD>November 2010</TD><TD>Auto Bild Sportscars (11/2010)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

2. 997 Gen 1 Turbo's time by third party testing is 7:54; the factory's 7:38 cannot be trusted. IMHO, the secret to Nurburgring times is NEVER trust manufacturer's numbers; they will sell you the Brooklyn Bridge if they could. Much better to look at third parties' test numbers. In particular 'ring tests by Sport Auto with Horst von Saurma as driver are well known and well followed.

 

I don't know (or really care) the official times, but Chris stated 7.32 as the time for the TTS, not the .1 TT.

 

Yes & thanks, I noticed too and have made correction - you replied so soon.

I don't really care that much about 'ring time either, because regardless of the time, what's important for potential buyers is that the 997.2 Turbo and Turbo S continues the same tradition: Stock suspension is very soft and the steering is still over-assisted. The sound is deadly boring. There is still NO comparison as to the difference in feel between the 2 cars, 997.2 Turbo/S and GT2.
I would say 997.2 Turbo/S at a minimum, at least for anyone who knows about GT3, needs stiffer, lower suspension and after market exhaust. Basically, yes it needs a lot, or it will still be an extremely boring car.

In particular, if you are a manual-gear-box type of person, the Turbo S will bore you to death with its PDK box. This alone is reason NOT to get the S. (Did I really just say boring 3 times?)

 

1. Engine: Yes the old engine is *supposed* to be more robust because it is based on the GT1 (aka Mezger - note no "t") engine that's found in race cars. Don't ask me to explain what exactly "robust" means though. Kidding aside, for example, it has a true dry sump oil scavenging system, whereas the new one has what sounds like a fake-butter type dry sump (anyone pls correct as needed). More reliable? For racing, probably. For us amateurs, I don't know and don't think there is data to support either way. I am actually neutral on this aspect - I don't care/mind either engine as long as the power is there. Those who want to mod the engine would probably prefer the older engine. The Mezger engine *is* a classic and will go down in history as one of Porsche's all time greatests (despite of the RMS leak with the GT3's NA version); NOT the new engine, not yet.

2. Sport setting can be engaged at all times. It does give more boost, less subjective lag, more immediate throttle response, stiffer suspension setting (but still no where near GT3 level, and still not at Bilstein level), **no** worthy sound improvement, could even be considered worse - more high strung, more obnoxious idle sound (you need after-market exhaust). It also makes the car less 4WD, more 2WD (more power to rear, less to front). Sport setting in general makes the car more high strung in behavior and each person's usage varies but I don't always drive with it on.
Don't worry too much about the 10 second thing; IMHO, bottom line is it works and it does make the car faster.
It should be noted that the Sport setting still does not replace a better suspension like Bilstein, or KW V3, or Moton if you are going to track the car strictly. There is an explanation: PASM works by increasing damping force of the shock absorber, whereas a real replacement like Bilstein uses stiffer *SPRING*. Huge difference.

 

Cannga,

I read your post and agree with you on everything that you have said so far. I own the .2tts and it's a beast. The car is scary fast, but lacks connectivity to the car/road. I am not bored yet, but enough to be thinking about trading the car for a GT3. It sound crazy to the wife, but I drove a 2007 GT3 the other day and what a difference between cars. The GT3 is more of a drivers car (raw). Unfortunately, the tts is not satisfying the inner child.

 

The 997.1 as cannga has mentioned is numb from the factory. I heard they stiffened up the rear bar in the 997.2 or something, haven't driven one myself.

Capable? Yes. Huge tires. Hard not to be honestly. But the feeling is pretty poor and doesn't inspire confidence.

I'm happy with the suspension mods I've done and plan on a few more to get a more connected feel with the road.

 

Thanks dinorocz, eclou, cannga, sanchezdds, djben! For me lap times is only significant because there isn't a 997.2 to test drive at the dealer to compare for myself and draw my own conclusions. I am wondering how much of a difference there is between the 997.1 and 997.2 TT in terms of power, acceleration beyond just the specs?... Honestly, is the power noticeable enough to warrant an extra $40k?...

There are some nice CPO 997.1 TT that look appealing, but I do like the interior of the 997.2 TT better. At some point, I would love to change the steering wheel to the alcanterra SportDesign wheel as offered by Suncoast, IF IT'S COMPATIBLE WITH MANUAL. http://www.suncoastparts.com/product...newproductpage

Can, great suggestions for the Bilstein shocks, and exhaust. I plan to keep the car for a long time. I will definitely do it, but not before the warranty is up. I just don't know who/where I should have it done - amazing how you arrived at the camber, geometry, etc... Anyway, that's a few years away at least. For the exhaust, I wouldn't want an unmusical, tractor like sound - I prefer the raw but sophisticated, "European," moderate loudness type of exhaust. That's euphonic to my ears. Upon cursory clips on Youtube, it seems like EP1 and Akropovic is the way to go. Not sure about Sharkwerks.

It's a bit crazy after spending a $100k on a car, one still has to do $20k in mods just to make it handle, ride, and sound like a GT3... Reminds me of the "Be Like Mike" commercial; in this case it's "Ride like GT3."

Besides a rougher ride, I wonder if all the handling, steering, braking prowess of the GT3 Mk2 will be a discerning factor for street use only? Some of you say yes, some say no. I am curious, just how much "slower" is the acceleration compared with the 997.1 TT off the line?

You guys are a good bunch here!

 

Ring times, like them or not, have become an industry standard, there is no up side for a manufacturer to fabricate times. Hurley Haywood has verified these times, he doesn't lie. 7:38 for the 997.1 was a factory time, WR driving, I have no reason to doubt porsche. As was the tts time of 7;32, yes 300# heavier and on street tires vs the gt2 on cups, why would porsche come up with that, unless it's real.
You can look it up like I did, I believe Bobby has a link.
The fact is, the car needs nothing, there is very little one can really do to improve on a 7:32, unless you're named Ruf. AM exhausts and suspensions are a matter of personal choice and opinion, very little hard data, ie lap times, to say that it's actually better and faster than stock, butt meters ain't allowed. Been there, done that....
The pdk is boring...yes.....except in sport plus mode on the track (maintains rpms btwn 4500-7000 all the time). My car has run some very quick laps at the glen, (embarrassingly quick) bone stock. I'm going again this weekend, we'll see if i can get my Harry's Lap Timer/camera setup going for a video.
Make no mistake, the tts is waaaaay faster than a 997.1 at the track, the only place that really counts.
Better? No, I still prefer the old engine and tranny, hence the slant!

 

not that I doubt you but im not sure how that is possible. In the tt I always feel like the right gear would be a longer 2nd and a longer 3rd (for the track). I just watched a video of a buddy of mine do a lap at the same track with his 2010 rs and he was pretty much doing everything in 3rd.... for me to pull out of a turn with the same power he was exiting with, I would have to drop to 2nd so im in my "power zone" or spooled, then quickly back to 3rd then on to 4th, before getting to the next turn again and do the same thing (obviously take into consideration that not every turn is identical, but this was just to give an example of many of the scenarios on the track).

Hope I was clear, but in any case I do think that its a tough choice to go with a turbo or a 3, both are awesome cars and have advantages, but for the track person, I think the right choice is a 3. Having said all that, I never wanna give up my turbo