997 Turbo S or 991 Carrera S
#48
12-21-2011, 06:10 PM
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Two diffrent cars, the new 991s PDK wil hit 3.9 60 Sport Chrono,
Turbo S sub 3 sec, na car versus a Turbo car, just diffrent, I think you would be happy with either, question is yours and yours alone, I bought a 997 Turbo PDK, sport chrono, centerlocks, color combo I wanted, yest the S is .2 faster, but I was going for color combo, if you mod either the Turbo or S results are the same, really doesnt matter, 30hp was not the factor, white on red was, no one had a S in that combo,rare, I would say get the S , but you will be happy with the 991S new Turbos are 2 plus years out, and you cant order one, only buyers are on waiting lists, so maybe you would get a new turbo one year after production, the new S will be one year or two past that, hope this helps
Turbo S sub 3 sec, na car versus a Turbo car, just diffrent, I think you would be happy with either, question is yours and yours alone, I bought a 997 Turbo PDK, sport chrono, centerlocks, color combo I wanted, yest the S is .2 faster, but I was going for color combo, if you mod either the Turbo or S results are the same, really doesnt matter, 30hp was not the factor, white on red was, no one had a S in that combo,rare, I would say get the S , but you will be happy with the 991S new Turbos are 2 plus years out, and you cant order one, only buyers are on waiting lists, so maybe you would get a new turbo one year after production, the new S will be one year or two past that, hope this helps
#49
12-21-2011, 10:12 PM
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Can I just add something here...does anybody think the then 991TT or 991TTS, whenever they come out, can top the current TTS 0-60 of 2.7 seconds? Not to be a nerd but this is like calculus and limits approaching 0...you can't just keep making cars quicker and quicker and eventually, you're going to hit a wall. Maybe 0-60 of 2 seconds is the wall, but at some point, the Porsche engineers will have maximized what they can do with 6 cylinders and turbos. Even all these tuners with incredible 800 hp machines, from my very limited understanding, can't get 0-60 times that match a TTS? Any thoughts from the community? I myself will sell my 997TT in a couple of years and try to pick up a used TTS.
Sure, they can best it technologically, assuming the PDK can handle more power and/or they can further reduce weight and/or simultaneously increase grip and/or can convince their Team to allow a higher RPM launch. The flat 6/TT engines are capable of way over 1000bhp. A lot more than the Porsche AWD drivetrain can take it seems, since the big HP Porsche guys seem to all build RWD GT2's.
Does Porsche need to push for a quicker 0-60 time? Not really, unless someone else in the mainstream bests them.
The brute force approach of reducing 0-60 times Porsche could take can be seen in the Alpha GTR's. Though built for 1/4 mile and 60-130 times really, they have the same dual clutch type trans type (trying like hell to hold together), launch control, sticky tires and so much (more) power, they overcome their relatively heavy weight. Never seen a Vbox run of an Alpha 9/12, but I've got to believe its under 2.7 seconds to 60.
A finesse-type approach can be seen with a really light car, with not so much power, such as an Ariel or Caterham.
Can you imagine a 1300lb P-car on the street?
How low can 0-60 times go? Dragsters pass 60mph quite a bit less than 1 second.
That kind of extends your original question: where does the practical limit of 0-60 times (aka marketing hype) intersect with ability, need/desire, and real world cost?
My thought is that at 2.5 seconds, the manufacturers cross the point (drop off) of diminishing returns.
Sign me up!
To the OP, TTS all the way!
Last edited by HIRISC; 12-22-2011 at 12:04 PM. Reason: clarifying
#51
12-21-2011, 11:48 PM
Faced with the very same decision, I chose the Turbo S. I'll have 4+ years to think about getting a 991. Assuming all you want to do is buy new, this is your last chance for a best-of-breed 997. I'll take that over being a guinea-pig on the first year car.
To each his own, but I think the depreciation is irrelevant unless you look at your car as an investment. I'd rather think of my car much in the same way as a dog. Are you going to sell him next year to buy the new pedigree in the pet-shop window? For me, the bond with my cars runs quite a bit deeper. I'd hate to have a feeling of "I should have waited" every time I see a newer car, because, well, you're guaranteed to see that quite a bit in the lifetime of your ownership! I think you're guaranteed to be miserable with that mindset...
To each his own, but I think the depreciation is irrelevant unless you look at your car as an investment. I'd rather think of my car much in the same way as a dog. Are you going to sell him next year to buy the new pedigree in the pet-shop window? For me, the bond with my cars runs quite a bit deeper. I'd hate to have a feeling of "I should have waited" every time I see a newer car, because, well, you're guaranteed to see that quite a bit in the lifetime of your ownership! I think you're guaranteed to be miserable with that mindset...
Last edited by arash; 12-21-2011 at 11:58 PM.
#52
12-22-2011, 02:07 AM
^^ A car is never an investment. A way to lose money quickly yes, but certainly not an investment....hence my point of minimising the inevitable loss to a semi acceptable level whilst maintaining sufficient enjoyment along the path of ownership ....'till that realisation of final true loss comes around....as it surely will
. Where this choice is concerned, there is a 7 year window to where you will find yourself at one stage either deeply lamenting or, gracefully accepting your decision as being the wiser one to have made at the time (of purchase) before that next 7 year window opens once again. For those already in a 997tts, whether it be 8 months 12 in etc, it's a far different situation from todays purchasing decision as the new 991 car was not physically available to make any direct comparison. Those individual decisions were therefore ultimately made in entirely different circumstances where there wasn't an entirely new platform physically under ones nose to contaminate the decision making process, as what is the case today. To be able to physically sit in and feel the two, evaluate the interior and exterior appearances and experience the engineering improvements, park the two beside one another, drive the two, is an opportunity that would be very foolish to overlook considering the new model is now on the market and into the cycle. Forget the inevitable losses, 7 years is a long time in any car. Way too long for me that's for sure. I find after 3 years the itch begins. It's nice to have an ea$y way out at that stage.
. Where this choice is concerned, there is a 7 year window to where you will find yourself at one stage either deeply lamenting or, gracefully accepting your decision as being the wiser one to have made at the time (of purchase) before that next 7 year window opens once again. For those already in a 997tts, whether it be 8 months 12 in etc, it's a far different situation from todays purchasing decision as the new 991 car was not physically available to make any direct comparison. Those individual decisions were therefore ultimately made in entirely different circumstances where there wasn't an entirely new platform physically under ones nose to contaminate the decision making process, as what is the case today. To be able to physically sit in and feel the two, evaluate the interior and exterior appearances and experience the engineering improvements, park the two beside one another, drive the two, is an opportunity that would be very foolish to overlook considering the new model is now on the market and into the cycle. Forget the inevitable losses, 7 years is a long time in any car. Way too long for me that's for sure. I find after 3 years the itch begins. It's nice to have an ea$y way out at that stage.
#53
12-23-2011, 04:17 PM
I have moved across 3 turbo variants and never thought I had owned something old or not comparable. When the time came to upgrade I went with the newest model because that was what I could afford to do. I still look back at my 996 tt with great fondness and no regrets.
For me it would be the TTS without question. No matter what the 991tt looks or drives like a few years out the 997TTS will still be a better than awesome car. The 3 10ths or 4 10ths of a second of acceleration difference will never be realized by 90% of the people on this board myself included. The 997 platform will be remembered and appreciated for years to come. Get what you want not what people think you should have.
For me it would be the TTS without question. No matter what the 991tt looks or drives like a few years out the 997TTS will still be a better than awesome car. The 3 10ths or 4 10ths of a second of acceleration difference will never be realized by 90% of the people on this board myself included. The 997 platform will be remembered and appreciated for years to come. Get what you want not what people think you should have.
#54
12-27-2011, 01:16 PM
If you want to go fast, and love the feel of pure acceleration, the 997 turbo S wins hands down. If you are worried about depreciation, buy a clean, used 997 Turbo or Turbo S.
I bought a used, low mileage 1997 993 Turbo back in 2001. I kept it for about 3 years and put about 10K miles on it. I sold it for about $10K less than I paid. If I had kept it with low miles and in pristine shape, I could get more for it now than when I bought it.
If you look at prices for clean, low mileage 1995 996 turbos, they are selling for about $10K less than an older 997. They value is still there despite the 997 improvements. I think you are overstating the depreciation concern unless you plan on flipping it in a year or two. And if depreciation is your concern, buy used, not new. The biggest depreciation happens the day you drive that new car off the lot.
The 997 Turbo S is a super car. In the long run, a super car in pristine shape will be a collectors item and hold its value. A 991 Carrera, probably not. They will build too many of them.
I am clearly biased as I am shopping for a 997 Turbo now (probably not S). I am not even considering a 991 Carrera. The 991 Carrera will be cool for a year or two and then there will be thousands of them. And the 997 turbo will blow the doors off the 991 Carrera every day.
I bought a used, low mileage 1997 993 Turbo back in 2001. I kept it for about 3 years and put about 10K miles on it. I sold it for about $10K less than I paid. If I had kept it with low miles and in pristine shape, I could get more for it now than when I bought it.
If you look at prices for clean, low mileage 1995 996 turbos, they are selling for about $10K less than an older 997. They value is still there despite the 997 improvements. I think you are overstating the depreciation concern unless you plan on flipping it in a year or two. And if depreciation is your concern, buy used, not new. The biggest depreciation happens the day you drive that new car off the lot.
The 997 Turbo S is a super car. In the long run, a super car in pristine shape will be a collectors item and hold its value. A 991 Carrera, probably not. They will build too many of them.
I am clearly biased as I am shopping for a 997 Turbo now (probably not S). I am not even considering a 991 Carrera. The 991 Carrera will be cool for a year or two and then there will be thousands of them. And the 997 turbo will blow the doors off the 991 Carrera every day.
#55
12-28-2011, 09:05 AM
Long time no post, so I will chime in here.
I went through the same mental exercise a few months back and was originally planning to get a C2S and ended up with a TTS knowing fully that a 991 redesign is coming.
There are a few reasons which led me to the TTS:
1. Number one reason for me to get a 911 is the timeless look. Always wanted one since a kid and the iconic look never changed (except 996) and I asked myself if I would be disappointed if I have already owned a 993 or 964 and the answer is "No".
2. I do plan to keep the car. At the rate I am adding miles, I can see this car sitting at 30k miles ten years from now. So the latest look does not apply to me.
3. A turbo will always be "special" but a C2S (even a 991) will eventually be a norm.
4. I actually like the simpler interior of the 997 when compared to the "busier" and "chromy" Panamera/Cayenne/991 interior. My wife agreed too but this is just a personal opinion; but nevertheless helped me make up my mind.
5. After owning a couple of first/second year German car, I have sworn off all redesigned German cars for the first 2 years. I had a last model year BMW 7 series before which was supposed to be a problematic car, but our last year car lasted 8 years w/o an issue and I just got tired of it and traded it in.
So IMHO, unless you plan to switch car for every facelift/redesign of the 911, the TTS is definitely a better choice especially considering that you may get a good deal on the 997 but you will pay full price on 991S. Also, I priced one 991S on the Porsche site, I ended up with a car which is almost 130k which is definitely too rich for me for a C2S.
I went through the same mental exercise a few months back and was originally planning to get a C2S and ended up with a TTS knowing fully that a 991 redesign is coming.
There are a few reasons which led me to the TTS:
1. Number one reason for me to get a 911 is the timeless look. Always wanted one since a kid and the iconic look never changed (except 996) and I asked myself if I would be disappointed if I have already owned a 993 or 964 and the answer is "No".
2. I do plan to keep the car. At the rate I am adding miles, I can see this car sitting at 30k miles ten years from now. So the latest look does not apply to me.
3. A turbo will always be "special" but a C2S (even a 991) will eventually be a norm.
4. I actually like the simpler interior of the 997 when compared to the "busier" and "chromy" Panamera/Cayenne/991 interior. My wife agreed too but this is just a personal opinion; but nevertheless helped me make up my mind.
5. After owning a couple of first/second year German car, I have sworn off all redesigned German cars for the first 2 years. I had a last model year BMW 7 series before which was supposed to be a problematic car, but our last year car lasted 8 years w/o an issue and I just got tired of it and traded it in.
So IMHO, unless you plan to switch car for every facelift/redesign of the 911, the TTS is definitely a better choice especially considering that you may get a good deal on the 997 but you will pay full price on 991S. Also, I priced one 991S on the Porsche site, I ended up with a car which is almost 130k which is definitely too rich for me for a C2S.
#56
12-29-2011, 12:05 AM
Honestly can't believe that this is even a comparison, unless you were on a budget.
TTS ALL THE WAY.
TTS ALL THE WAY.
#57
01-01-2012, 12:30 PM
I would say it depends a lot on how long you plan to keep the car, and your financial situation of course.
To buy a brand new car of the outgoing model you really have to love that particular car and not go around second guessing yourself every time you see the new model.
Personally I wouldn't buy a last year model of any car, unless I could go back to 2006 and buy an E46 M3..
To buy a brand new car of the outgoing model you really have to love that particular car and not go around second guessing yourself every time you see the new model.
Personally I wouldn't buy a last year model of any car, unless I could go back to 2006 and buy an E46 M3..
#58
01-01-2012, 12:37 PM
5. After owning a couple of first/second year German car, I have sworn off all redesigned German cars for the first 2 years. I had a last model year BMW 7 series before which was supposed to be a problematic car, but our last year car lasted 8 years w/o an issue and I just got tired of it and traded it in.
#59
01-01-2012, 12:49 PM
Long time no post, so I will chime in here.
I went through the same mental exercise a few months back and was originally planning to get a C2S and ended up with a TTS knowing fully that a 991 redesign is coming.
There are a few reasons which led me to the TTS:
1. Number one reason for me to get a 911 is the timeless look. Always wanted one since a kid and the iconic look never changed (except 996) and I asked myself if I would be disappointed if I have already owned a 993 or 964 and the answer is "No".
2. I do plan to keep the car. At the rate I am adding miles, I can see this car sitting at 30k miles ten years from now. So the latest look does not apply to me.
3. A turbo will always be "special" but a C2S (even a 991) will eventually be a norm.
4. I actually like the simpler interior of the 997 when compared to the "busier" and "chromy" Panamera/Cayenne/991 interior. My wife agreed too but this is just a personal opinion; but nevertheless helped me make up my mind.
5. After owning a couple of first/second year German car, I have sworn off all redesigned German cars for the first 2 years. I had a last model year BMW 7 series before which was supposed to be a problematic car, but our last year car lasted 8 years w/o an issue and I just got tired of it and traded it in.
So IMHO, unless you plan to switch car for every facelift/redesign of the 911, the TTS is definitely a better choice especially considering that you may get a good deal on the 997 but you will pay full price on 991S. Also, I priced one 991S on the Porsche site, I ended up with a car which is almost 130k which is definitely too rich for me for a C2S.
I went through the same mental exercise a few months back and was originally planning to get a C2S and ended up with a TTS knowing fully that a 991 redesign is coming.
There are a few reasons which led me to the TTS:
1. Number one reason for me to get a 911 is the timeless look. Always wanted one since a kid and the iconic look never changed (except 996) and I asked myself if I would be disappointed if I have already owned a 993 or 964 and the answer is "No".
2. I do plan to keep the car. At the rate I am adding miles, I can see this car sitting at 30k miles ten years from now. So the latest look does not apply to me.
3. A turbo will always be "special" but a C2S (even a 991) will eventually be a norm.
4. I actually like the simpler interior of the 997 when compared to the "busier" and "chromy" Panamera/Cayenne/991 interior. My wife agreed too but this is just a personal opinion; but nevertheless helped me make up my mind.
5. After owning a couple of first/second year German car, I have sworn off all redesigned German cars for the first 2 years. I had a last model year BMW 7 series before which was supposed to be a problematic car, but our last year car lasted 8 years w/o an issue and I just got tired of it and traded it in.
So IMHO, unless you plan to switch car for every facelift/redesign of the 911, the TTS is definitely a better choice especially considering that you may get a good deal on the 997 but you will pay full price on 991S. Also, I priced one 991S on the Porsche site, I ended up with a car which is almost 130k which is definitely too rich for me for a C2S.
In regards to the interior, I have no doubt that the 991 interior will be beautiful. However, the simple, straightforward look of the current 997.2 is more befitting of a 911 IMHO. I can, however, appreciate the interior in a Panamera or Cayenne.
And to the OP, not sure if you've driven the TTS. It's truly a blast to have all that power in a reliable machine. Buying these type of toys should never be about an 'investment.' It's about what makes you the happiest in the present moment.
#60
01-03-2012, 09:25 AM
TTS. It will always be the best of its "kind" whereas the 991 will eventually be just another 991 at some point in time. $ should not really be the consideration here. If it were, I would be looking at a used TT (like me). My $0.02.