While having my Europipe installed over at AMS, Larry updated me on where AMS was on their 997 packages. Being I am still enjoying the power of the 997, I didn’t feel their full package was necessary and decided to do the base package of the flash and bmc filter to go along with my Europipe. Here is my brief review.

Car info: 2007 manual 997.1 turbo with 43,000 miles on Shell 93 octane.

So, I dropped off my car last week to let Martin the tuner work his magic. I picked the car up on Thursday night and have had several days (250 miles) of seat time to feel the added power.

First the numbers, all these figures are with sports mode on and my Europipe. Note that the filters were not included in these numbers (see below)

Stock the 911 turbo generates 480 hp and 505 tq at the crank. Per Europipe’s website, Stock power expected after exhaust - 498 hp and 521 tq.

Dynojet numbers (These are for reference purposes and not meant to start a debate as dynos and test conditions vary)
Stock - 415 awhp and 438 awtq for an estimated 15.8% drive train loss down low for peak tq and 16.9% drive train loss higher up for peak hp.
Tuned - 501 awhp and 618 awtq for an estimated crank value of 602 hp and 735 tq based on these drive train losses.

The following is the deltas for awhp between stock and tuned based on my eyeball of the dyno sheet.

3500 rpms - 105 awhp delta
4000 rpms - 115 awhp delta
4500 rpms - 125 awhp delta
5000 rpms - 115 awhp delta
5500 rpms - 80 awhp delta
6000 rpms - 60 awhp delta

Based on that, you can really see that these turbos get winded up top when maxed out. Hence the next level is upgraded turbos to go the next 100 - 150hp (assuming you go with vgt).

Also, I expect that tq to make quick work of my stock clutch.

Driving, it’s obviously more of a rocket now. The power in the mid range rips the car in every gear. The added power feels no difference. In my 08 335i, when I modified it for an additional 50% more power, I could feel the engine working to make that extra power. The m64 feels exactly the same with power rolling through the power train as smooth as stock.

I now am traction limited by my tires. First and second gear under stock power were scrambling for traction and now I have added third. I did some pulls on my phone before and after to register the Gs i was pulling.

Stock - 1st gear and 2nd gear were pulling about .9 Gs peak and 3rd pulled .57g.

Tuned - All three gears were low peak .9 with no room to do any 4th gear pulls.

It’s grossly fast and I think I might have met my need for speed. Anything with more power would just continue to be limited by traction and only increase accelerations in higher gears which translates into speeds I just dont use on the street.

The cars behaves exactly at stock but with more power. I only run in spots mode now to get the full 17 psi. While stock, the car was very sensitive to inputs at lower speeds in sports mode causing me not to use it while I had passengers to keep the ride smoother. Now, the car is very civilized and easy to modulate in first gear. Could be in my head, but I feel like they have refined that input.

For boost control, stock levels were all over the place. It would hit different boost levels from gear to gear and even after doing multiple pulls in the same gear. Usually 1st – 3rd would be sub 13psi with higher gears touching 17psi under heaving stunned load in 6th (I shouldn’t have done this, but I wanted to make sure the clutch was good when I bought the car). Now, the car instantly hits 17psi on the spot and just holds rock solid through the rpms. No fuss, just dead on 17psi .

Ams was amazing to work with. They tested the $300 filter upgrades that everyone goes with on the forums with a tune, showed zero gains so they didnt sell them to me. It’s incredibly reassuring to take my car to a company that has 2-3 1000+ hp cars just sitting out front let alone all the cars they have tuned.

So, what should I start planning on for a clutch upgrade? AMS is recommending the Sach Stage 2.5 clutch with LW flywheel and the clutch slave and master conversion. I have seen many folks just do the clutch upgrade. Is the conversion necessary for my power levels? Also, while I had that done, I thought an upgrade to the spark plugs would be a good idea. Any recommendations? Anything else I should have done?

Thanks to Larry and Eric at AMS.

 

Great review! Thanks for sharing. Crazy torque numbers (awhp too?) for an exhaust and tune, reminds me of the APR tune reviews. Guess I'll be putting AMS on my short list.

 

very nice James!

 

thanks for sharing the info

enjoy your car ..

 

Thanks for the good info. Which Europipe did you go with? And how much louder was it than stock? PM sent.

 

As far as the boost goes. In stock form the gauge is accurate. But when flashed it no longer is. If you have the opportunity to data log it or simply hook up a boost gauge you will see that you have 20+ PSI in both Sport/standard modes.

The clutch they recommend will work even with hybrids that You dont plan on getting but will change your mind when you get use to this power.
DONT get the LWFW. Its Noisy and is worth as much as a BMC Filter!

Dont skimp on the Slave conversion. This is a must have!

Plugs show there age around 30k miles. They can be done without removing the turbos. But are a PITA.

 

I have europipe stage 1.

Thats interesting to hear the gauge isnt accruate. Why doesnt it show actual?

I am suprised to hear the lwfw is a waste. What would be another option?

I have only 5k miles on the current plugs. Was just thinking going colder plugs since the cars going to be apart.

Thanks

 

Hopefully the AMS guys can chime on this.

I subscribed to the thread below where AMS tuned OneBadGTR's 997 TTS and it made 539whp / 576wtq (posted in March 2012). Besides the tune, the only mod he said was a Sharkwerks exhaust. I know all conditions/motors are different, blah, blah, blah... However, can it be assumed this was the same dyno used and tuner from AMS? Should've been colder in March too?

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...os-inside.html

I'm just curious and that much more impressed with the tq numbers on an AMS tuned 997.1 TT versus the tune on the newer 997.2 TT software/3.8 DFI.

AMS is really making me consider a road trip to Chicago for a tune. Seriously, I'm really thinking about this!

It's only been a few months with my 997.1 TT and I'm loving this car! Your new tune must be a blast to drive. Enjoy in good health!

 

Remember that the Europipe replaces the cats with much larger 100 cell units, where the stock 400 cell units are retained with the Sharkwerks exhaust. I suspect that is the delta you are seeing.

 

amw... all things equal (hardware) there will be minimal variance between tuners. I use Proto and like the support. Had Softtronic prior and the support was bad. Dyno numbers are just that Dyno numbers.

Mitharal... It will only read a max of 17psi. No higher, even if you boost 30psi. You have 5k miles. Keep the stock FW. Check Sharkworks thread on LWFW and IMS Failure a couple pages back. I use one step colder plugs (Denso IK22) Does it help, no idea.

 

Perhaps someone from AMS can respond--Is this an APR tune ?

 

Interesting point. Could very well be the difference I guess.

BaldBag, that is my point. Both OneBadGTR's 997.2 Turbo S (with 'more restritive' Sharkwerks exhaust) and mithiral67's 997.1 Turbo ('less restrictive' EP1)were both tuned by AMS. So I am assuming it's the same tuner (AMS) and same dyno (Dynojet) used for both cars. Also according to the posts, the 997.2 Turbo S was tuned in March (colder weather), which I'd also think be more favorable powerwise.

I'm not sure how much a 25 ft-lbs wtq delta really is or if it could be even be felt on the street. I am just surprised (pleasantly) that the AMS tuned 997.1 turbo made more torque than the AMS tuned 997.2 Turbo. I would have still expected the opposite, that's all.

I was really hoping to avoid power mods for bit, but it seems foolish NOT to get a tune for the significant gains in hp and tq on a 997.1 Turbo. Great job AMS!

 

Its not an apr tune. Its AMS in house tuning.

 

The tunes are all written in house for our Archetype branding.
997 Turbo
Audi
Merc
Lambo
Bentley
etc

We have 2 tuners who work closely together on our development of Archetype tunes. The 2 cars were both tuned on our Dyno Jet, but by different tuners.

There is no fair way to accurately compare the results of the 997.2 S w/ PDK to a 997.1 6 speed manual.


We were working with keeping the Turbo S safe within the limits of what has said to be limits of the PDK. We seen no issues with the Turbo S during or after tuning. The customer was very happy with the results, but has since replaced it with a 2012 R8 5.2 now which we are tuning next week.

The 997.1 is known to be able to take some additional power especially with a manual trans. We kept it right to where we felt comfortable and seen no clutch slip with James car still having a stock clutch.

I hope this helps clear up a few things.

BTW: James it was a pleasure working with you again and we appreciate the feedback.

Larry

 

could be the PDK's ECU limiting Tq to preserve the clutches. Champion pushed the limits on there "Admiral 997 TTS" and ran into clutch slip