No probs

 

Abby997TT has catless Cargraphic race on his 997.1TT and its the best sounding exhaust I've heard yet.

 

I'm not sure I follow you. The O2 sensors are not modified, changed or eliminated on the aftermarket exhausts, unless they are specifically designed without cats they all use the stock sensors. So it is my understanding that if the cat is not doing its job you will get a CEL

 

The post cat sensors only check if the cat is doing its job, my Cargraphic worked just fine but over time it triggered non stop CEL's. This has occured on many exhausts, do a search on this forum...and most, if not all, use the same cat. There were rumors of HJS making a few revisions to their cats as they did not perform well over time.

The cat dimensions, o2 placement and exhaust pipe design all come into play in not triggering CEL's. It would seem general opinion from owners is that the EP1 does not generate codes, not one has been reported from a 997TT owner on here anyways.

 

Sure, but how do we rule out that something/some event in *your* car did not cause damage to the cat converter? An ECU tune running too rich could certainly cause damage to the cat. The same exhaust in my car has been there 4 years with a GIAC ECU tune and I don't have CEL light at all, at 45000 miles. Not implying at all that any exhaust is perfect or lasts forever, merely that something external to the exhaust might have gone wrong in your car at one time.

The HJS rumor mentioned is that, speculative rumor not mentioned by anyone else. Cargraphic uses third party Emitec core (substrate) and HJS cat (the gold standard and same as what is used in OEM Porsche exhaust AFAIK - anyone pls correct as needed); there are any number of reasons any design (car, watch, camera, etc.) could change over the years, but to imply one event in one car -->hence problem with a third party core/cat used across the board by multiple companies-->hence modification needed and was done, is for me a little too far-fetched to be believed and repeated repeatedly. It would be nice to see a reliable for this news.

IMHO, both EP and Cargraphic are excellent exhausts and the ultimate decision will come down to the sound of the exhaust, more specifically the loudness. (The other "data", more horsepower, etc., are speculative/anecdotal to me and have not been proven by a trustworthy third party.) If you want a more quiet exhaust, then EP, especially EP1, is a good choice. If you want more loudness and more aggressiveness, then lean towards EP2, and eventually Cargraphic for the most aggressive. The loudness choice is of course purely personal and there is no right or wrong - what is just right for one could be way too loud for another.
For OP, I would caution that closest alternative to Cargraphic Loud is not EP1, but EP2. Reading between the lines of many good reports here and from reliable sources, if I were to get EP, it would be the EP2. For me, even EP2 might not be loud enough, but EP1 is definitely out. Make sure you take a listen in person, especially with windows up because that's likely how you'll be driving most of the times.

 

Stock 997TT exhausts have triggered CELs, Ive read the installation of an EP1 has fixed that CEL even. Same with the Cayman in 2006 I believe, 400 CPI cats causing issues, changed to 600 and no more problems during production.

Look at the location of the post cat o2 sensor on Cargraphic and compare to the Europipe, it sits higher in the EP. Not unlike the extensions used to make catless cars not trigger codes.

 

not to pollute this thread with Europipe posts but I'd just comment that the post you're referring to regarding the "loudness" of an EP1 with the windows rolled up is mine. But these are very subjective comments, and to be clear my "windows up" comment was referring to the sound at idle or light throttle. under throttle the EP1 is not quiet by any means

watch the following on your computer with the speakers turned up (and for god's sake don't watch it on your phone with the tiny speakers ):


and just to be clear, I'm only trying to be helpful by providing information. No intention to engage in a debate about which exhaust is better, I've heard multiple aftermarket exhausts and they were all much better than stock so hard to lose with any of them IMO

 

Amen on the EP1...no problems with sensors setting lights on dash. Had problem big time with the factory cats after 35K miles.......no issues what-so-ever with EP1. Really a fine exhaust and worth the money, if for nothing else no more dash lights problems which can be a real pain.

 

The video sounds like the crackling of a EP1-cold start. Do the video again with engine warmed up. I turn off the cold start mechanism in the morning to keep peace with wife and next door neighbors. Without the cold start, the exhaust has a clean/consistent deep-exotic-car exh-sound without the cold-start crackling.

 

GMoney - any reason you chose the EP1 over the EP2? My car is likely not going to be heavily modded (I say that now). I really want the car to sound nice (and noticeable). Wasn't sure if when people say 'under throttle' they mean gunning it or simply accelerating normally. Not going to be able to listen to these in person so trying to make a call based on the feedback (I realize the risk in this). Just don't want the EP1 to be muted or remotely subtle...

 

For this type of expenditure you really should make an effort to hear in person, both outside and inside, if possible. Not sure why you can't listen in person - surely there are cars in LA with EP's installed. I've had two 997.1 turbos and both had/have EP2. I live in a closed community and no one has ever complained about the noise. I think the exhaust sounds great. Because the tubing on the EP2 is a little larger, the hp gains, reduced backpressure and noise are more than the EP1.


Stage 1 exhaust

• reuses the stock ø 60mm oval tailpipes (tailpipes not included)
• maximum backpressure: 0.18 Bar / 2.6 psi (stock exhaust: 0.44 Bar / 6.4 psi)
• minimum + 18 hp / + 22 Nm<!-- *********************** 997 Turbo Stage 1 *********************** -->
• price: 3480 Euro + sales tax / 4595 USD<!-- *********************** 997 Turbo Stage 1 *********************** -->

Stage 2 exhaust

• comes with enlarged OEM chromed oval ø 76mm / ø 3 inch tailpipes
• maximum backpressure: 0.12 Bar / 1.75 psi (stock exhaust: 0.44 Bar / 6.4 psi)
• minimum + 20 hp / + 24 Nm
• not recommended on Tiptronic
• not recommended for owners with sensitive ears<!-- *********************** 997 Turbo Stage 2 *********************** -->
• price: 4180 Euro + sales tax

 

If I understand you correctly, this is a *very* simple and well known trick and could be done in any exhaust for a few dollars and a handyman, using spark plug non-foulers or even simpler, bung extension. Many examples on the forums but one with good pictures is here: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...n-foulers.html
There is nothing magical or new about this trick, in principle or in practice. You are simply moving the post cat sensor further from the exhaust internal flow so as to trick the car computer into thinking that the O2 level at post cat (not pre cat) sensor is lower than it actually is. Low post cat O2 means effective catalytic conversion.

But again, the main point is that in your car the cat could have been damaged by, for example, an ECU mod and your experience while true is not clear-cut at all as to the cause. Advice regarding CEL light, or anything for that matter, is best not given based on these anecdotal reports until you are absolutely sure what *else* is going on in the car.
At this very moment we see another example of CEL with same ECU mod as yours, should we use these two examples to suggest "this tune causes the CEL"? No right?

 

No problem at all - your report is nicely done, and a healthy and good discussion (who said debate? :-)) is good for the forum. Yes I agree, the ideal exhaust is one that is quiet at idle, and only loud at WOT. Loud at idle means you are going to have a headache if you use it as a daily driver; and could mean something is wrong with the installation (buzzing) or an ECU tune is doing "funny" things.

Loudness is among the most important criteria in choosing exhausts and very personal. This alone is the reason there could *never* be a single best exhaust for everyone. What is right for me could be too loud for someone else; and then we have the gentlemen with the catless systems .
That said, it is my opinion that one should err on the louder side, at least among "medium loudness" exhaust. My opinion/observation is that while there are always exceptions, people *tend* to wish for more loudness over time of ownership.

With that in mind, while 99.9% of EP1 owners are happy, once in a while I do run into a report similar to yours that tells me if you want aggressive and loud sound, this is not the one. (Nothing wrong with this; it's designed that way.) If this is the case, as mentioned, EP2 is a better candidate and for even more "noise," Cargraphic Loud I believe is the most aggressive (about same at WOT as GT3 stock; you would never mistake Cargraphic Loud for stock). It's terrible to pay this much and not get the loudness that's right for you.

 

Cannga, I have yet to see a report of a EVOMS tune fouling a converter. There are many possibilities in theory (bad gas for example) but CEL's across many exhausts brands are so common - including stock ones that my money is on the exhaust just not doing its job.

If stock exhausts cause the same CEL its almost guaranteed higher flow exhausts will do it as well. Except the EP with its obvious design difference and exhausts modded with tall sensor tubes or those who install the cat on o2 sensor devices.

 

Redline, the EP1 is far from quiet, but it is quieter than the Cargraphic under normal driving (not full throttle). At full throttle I cant tell a difference between the pair, they are both menacing sounding in a good way.

The EP2 I would assume is more loud at part throttle, idle situations much like the Cargraphic. I chose EP1 because it blends the best of both worlds, not too loud just tooling around town, but clear its not a stock exhaust. Then under full throttle its beautiful sounding.

So long as you take the precautions and add longer o2 tubes or buy the o2 eliminators then any exhaust will be great, but if you want a plug and play no CEL solution my personal experience having owned both, the EP1 is the way to go.

The cargraphic sounded fantastic, but I prefer the sound of the EP1.