Thanks Mitch!!

We gotta get someone out to the next even in Cali with a Cobb stg3 so we can some have friendly competition.

 

Tom -

Cobb, much like other tuners, uses their in-house Mustang dynos to calibrate and provide off the shelf maps that come preloaded on the Accessport device. These maps are tested to perform with a certain level modifications and octane in mind, very much like a GIAC's default maps flashed at their dealers.

The difference is that with the AP handheld the owner gets the ease of monitoring/datalogging their tune and learning about their car from every aspect of it. They're provided with a tool that allows them to take it on the dyno to a tuner to custom calibrate the tune further or do it remotely with their tuner on the street/track, if they so desire.

Off the shelf maps from any tuner always have a certain margin of safety built into them for variance in octane levels, ambients around the World as the same maps are sent from either GIAC, COBB, Dinan to every car out there but there is always more to be had with special attention to each car and its driver's needs/goals. This is similar to your special 9sec 997.2 file (correct me if I'm wrong) which you provide only to certain customers along with a blackbox datalogger to support the GIAC calibration team in dialing the car specifically for their needs when/where required.

Off the shelf is great, special sauce is better

Dzenno@PTF

 

I agree 100% Tom! Lets plan on getting something going next time. Let me know if you are going to be at SEMA, would be nice to say hi.

-Mitch

 

Take my car and have Tim drive

 

Nope...the 9 sec file is readily available to anyone who has the supporting hardware mods on their car. It's what's Longboarder has, it's what the customer I keep posting the videos of has, and literally dozens and dozens of other cars out there. The only thing different about this particular car is that it has an Aquamist HFS4-V3 system installed running a 70/30 mixture of water/meth.

As for the datalogger, we use a proprietor GIAC datalogger here at our facility during software development and testing, which is NEVER given out to anyone other then less then a handful of GIAC dealers who assist in the software testing process. There is no other datalogger that we provide to customers whatsoever. In cases where a customer wants the ability to datalog, I typically recommend Durametric.

Unfortunately not this year Mitch. I had planned to come out since it's been about 4 years since I've attended, but some things have come up that are keeping me tied down here for a bit. Next year for sure!

 

9 second files are off the shelf files with specific hardware requirements. Beyond that, we've created a large number of custom files for other hardware setups as well done on in-house dealer vehicles. We've done a ton of custom tuning with hugely varying hardware setups. We rest on the 9 second file/hardware setup because it is by and large the best bang for the buck, power wise. There is a lot of talk about off-the-shelf versus custom tuning. The bottom line is that you want a file that best matches the hardware setup you have. We're not in the business of sending a customer off to pay for 4 hours of dyno time here, 10 hours of dyno time there for a very expensive file that might not make more power. We would rather do the work up front for the customer, find the limits on in-house vehicles, and allow them to enjoy their car right out of the gate.

 

There's definitely a market for your model. It's been proven already and its largely why you're successful.

The interesting thing is that Cobb also supports your model. They too have specific calibrations (map files) with specific hardware requirements. Each calibration being more aggressive and requiring more hardware and more octane. Both Giac and Cobb are the same in this respect.

The difference is that not everyone is going to want the "set it and forget it" model. For those people, cobb has a different model. The "have it your way" model. Not everyone wants this or cares or has the time for this. But for the ones that do, its fantastic and its just the nature of the evolution of any platform. In this model, the user can take their car and their handheld and have any professional tuner tweak their calibration specifically for their car. No off the shelf map will ever be optimized for every car in every part of the world.

With the introduction of ATR, cobb now offers the 3rd and last model. This model is the DIY model. The user tweaks and creates their own calibrations and shares them amongst other users with similar mods or strictly for informational purposes. This market is the smallest of all 3 but it is there nonetheless.

Options and flexibility are a beautiful thing.

Cobb should say this every time they join a new platform:

"I know you’re out there. I can feel you now. I know that you’re afraid. You’re afraid of us. You’re afraid of change. I don’t know the future. I didn’t come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it’s going to begin. I’m going to hang up this phone, and then I’m going to show these people what you don’t want them to see. I’m going to show them a world … without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you."

 

While I agree with what you're saying in a very broad sense, my question will always be "why?

-What's wrong with our "set it and forget" model? It's currently produced all of the proven fastest 997.2 Turbo cars in the world.
-Why not let someone else do the testing and custom tuning on their shop car intead of your pride and joy?
-Why constantly be tweaking when you can just get a tune that's had all the tweaking done already.
-Why would you not want to install a few parts, flash the GIAC software, and go enjoy the car, knowing it's already been tweaked and tested for you?
-And lastly...capital W-H-Y would anyone ever install a tune on their $120k car that was created by "users" with no real technical knowledge of how these cars work.

But as you said...options are always a good thing...so I guess that answers my question.

 

Agree with Tom, but a lot of this stems from other platforms where ECU's are not overly complicated and there is a negative idea of a "canned" tune. My idea of a canned tune is you get a map-editing program and they give you some base files to work off while you dial the car in to your exact specifications. With most editing software, this is what you get.

Your factory ECU can only support two timing maps? You sure as hell better get a custom tune for your elevation, octane level, etc! The difference with GIAC/Champion is they are not selling you an editing software. They are selling you the completed files that are indeed tailored to your vehicle. You are not given a base file and told, here go out and finish it. This is a far cry from the typical notion of a "canned" tune that is prevalent in the domestic and JDM market.

While you're going through 20+ revisions trying to get your car dialed in, GIAC and Champion have already done this! At this point, you can tell them what hardware you are running and it's done. Get your file and go to the track the same day. This leaves a lot more time for new development, such as pushing the envelope on upgraded VTG's and some exciting things we're about to begin on stock turbos .

At the end of the day, the performance results speak for themselves. At this point, I would argue that GIAC and Champion are competing against their own records, trying to continue to push the envelope on the 997.2 platform. They're the only ones to break into the 9's, yet they aren't resting on their laurels. More development is taking place, and there will be some exciting results to come in the next few months.

 

Not overly complicated? I would argue that a lot of the Japanese ECU's are very much more complicated.

I think there is some mis communication going on with our product. The maps are completed on the AP. We are constantly adding new features in support that we give away for free. Sure you can settle for one map that works, but why not keep pushing to find ways to make more power.

We have been at this for only a few months and have already garnered a large Porsche customer base. We not only strive for a complete well rounded product but we also make sure we back it with industry leading customer service. In just a short time we are nipping the heals of Champions records and we have only just started. Think about where we will be in a year from now.

We have stock ECU cars in the 7's in the quarter mile. These features will soon be in the Porsche market and will be FREE to our current customers, and any new customers to come. We never stop developing product, I work around the world testing everyday refining these calibrations so that we know they work safely and are powerful. They do not get 20+ revisions, they get maps that come on the AP that have been tested on tracks literally around the globe.

We also offer the ability for cars to get custom tuned as well on dyno's by brick and mortar shops. Or you can get a custom file through the internet by using our datalogging. We do not feel that only certain people should be able to see how there car is running but feel like people have the right to see the data and ask questions about why there cars are doing something, and give them an answer in a timely manner.

We will not stop making new developments and will continue to push our product very far into the Porsche market.

I do not post our before and after's of competitors as I find it to be in bad taste. I would rather our product and support speak for themselves.

I look forward to what is to come in this market. I do appreciate what Champion and GIAC has done as they have set the bar high, and it pushes us to make a better product. But honestly trying to tell people that one size fits all is the end all be all is silly. I would like the community to have data, share data and in the end the cars only get faster by taking this approach.

If anyone has questions about our product please feel free to email me. I am on the dyno now but will be happy to answer when I get off.

mitch.mckee@cobbtuning.com

-Mitch

 

This post is a joke and is filled with numerous misrepresentations and inaccuracies, namely:

Your definition of "canned" tunes
Your exaggerating the number of revisions to get the vehicle "dialed in"
The complication of the Porsche ecu vs Domestic or JDM ecus
The comment about "editing software"

I understand you are aligned with certain individuals/companies, but there is no need to misrepresent things.

 

hehehe I have a friend that have a .2 with both GIAC and COBB stg 2 tunes (93 oct OTS not custom tuned) and just because I'm a ethic guy I will not say the difference, but there is a difference in whp (same car, same day, same dyno )

 

Not sure what ethics has to do with it? Might as well give the numbers. Keep in mind you can see 10-20hp swings depending on engine/intercooler/etc temps on the dyno too . If one makes more than the other it's basically down to ignition timing, boost, and target AFR. There isn't any "magic" outside of how aggressively those variables are set. Maybe variocam timing as well.

 

If you are worried about appearing ethical then posting the actual difference including testing context (engine temps, iats, etc) is better than posting innuendos...

 

haha...."I have a secret but I'm not telling."

With all due respect guys...this is my thread, about our accomplishments and records. So if you could keep the arguing and underhanded insults to another thread somewhere else I'd appreciate it.

Mitch, I think the main problem is that you have people on the forum, such as webcarconnection, who make comments and claims about your software that mis-represent the product and how it works. Not only that, but constantly making unsubstantiated claims about either his car or someone else's (like he's doing above) just sheds a dark cloud over the hard work you're doing and the great results you've gotten so far. Top if off with inaccurate information and sometimes downright lies which are told about our software, and it's just poor form in my opinion.

I know all about the PM's going back and forth to our customers and forum members, I hear all about it. I know all about the behind the scenes "don't buy the Champion/GIAC software because blah blah blah...". Now, to be VERY clear, I am in no way suggesting that this is coming from any official representative of Cobb Tuning, in fact I know it's not. But the fact is...for some reason several of your customers have taken it upon themselves to become unofficial forum advocates of your company, and their "enthusiasm" often gets the best of their better judgement and contradicts the FACTS. As a company you guys have always represented yourselves well.

If you ever talk to any customer of mine, you will always find some simple fact to be true. I/We sell our products on their own merits, NEVER by degrading a competitor's product. That's what this thread is about...the accomplishments we've made with our product. So far we hold the record for fastest ET on both stock turbos and upgraded turbos, highest HP 997.2 Turbo, fastest trap speed on both stock turbos and upgraded turbos, and fastest PDK 60-130. Not to mention over 4 years of transparency and sharing information about the PDK and the work we've put into developing the 997.2 platform when EVERYONE else in the industry gave up on it!! That is how I sell our product!

When the day comes (and I know it will) that someone beats those records, I will shake their hand, applaud them, and then continue working on pushing the platform even further. For now, we'll just soak in the glory while we have it.