997 Turbo / GT2 2006–2012 Turbo discussion on the 997 model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo.
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Why do you not do track days?

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Old Apr 16, 2015 | 01:29 AM
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Honestly the wrecking of the car is a concern. I do t worry about life/injury at all but thats just me.

The biggest reason i dont like the track is because it is hard on the car which translates into hard on the wallet. Fluids tires brakes and rock chips everywhere.
 
Old Apr 16, 2015 | 08:17 AM
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Many good points in these posts....for and against risking your car or personnel injury.
My wife and I are willing to accept the risks and the cost of tracking our cars 5-7 times each year. Tires, fluids, and brakes are regular consumables as a result. This cost has to be considered within your budget (I spent $1500 so far this year, just for brake pads and fluids). Yes, there is likely some additional wear/tear on the car overall as well. The fun we have and skills we are learning are worth the cost to us.

The choice is yours as is the risk.......

I did check on track insurance from On Track Insurance......$60k value 2014 Cayman S cost About $325 for up to 3 consecutive days. A $30k 2006 Cayman S runs about $200 for same. This covers 90% of the fix value you request on policy.
 
Old Apr 16, 2015 | 08:18 AM
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Many good points in these posts....for and against risking your car or personnel injury.
My wife and I are willing to accept the risks and the cost of tracking our cars 5-7 times each year. Tires, fluids, and brakes are regular consumables as a result. This cost has to be considered within your budget (I spent $1500 so far this year, just for brake pads and fluids). Yes, there is likely some additional wear/tear on the car overall as well. The fun we have and skills we are learning are worth the cost to us.

The choice is yours as is the risk.......

I did check on track insurance from On Track Insurance......$60k value 2014 Cayman S cost About $325 for up to 3 consecutive days. A $30k 2006 Cayman S runs about $200 for same. This covers 90% of the fix value you request on policy.
 
Old Apr 16, 2015 | 08:52 AM
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IMHO , PCA runs a very safe and consistent DE programs, I have done many in the northeast with different PCA chapters , all are exceptional when it comes to safety

I have never seen any accidents in the lower run groups with an instructor, most incidents are in the higher run groups as over confidence exceeds ones ability or older vehicles that have mechanical failure
I have 04 996 tt cab and 2013 997 tts cab ( w clear bra )neither of which do I have any in trepidation about using for PCA DE, neither vehicles have track insurance nor have I ever felt I was in a position that was compromising my safety. ( especially having an ex wife no need to make her any wealthier )
These as you know are engineered to be driven hard and behave unbelievably on the track

I think at the very least burn meter you should go to one of three tracks near you go check it out ( Thompson Ct just south of Worcester brand new last year , Palmer new this year near Worcester , New Hampshire least favorite or bit of ride Watkins glen amazing 3 mile track ) another option is to go to auto cross event to wet your appetite ��

As far as additional maintenance is in line with how often you go , a couple of time year I don't think is a big deal other than some additional tire and brake pad wear but that's nominal cost for fun these cars deliver
 
Old Apr 16, 2015 | 09:12 AM
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My life insurance has specific exclusions for racing. I carefully confirmed that DE and time-trial/time-attack are not considered racing, only wheel-to-wheel where you are competing directly against other drivers. Racing riders are available but $$$$.

I have a dedicated race car in which I compete in POC time-attack so have not taken the TT out yet. Someday I may take it out for fun but I got it to be a street car, and not potentially get fuched-up or overly-modded into a track beast.
 
Old Apr 16, 2015 | 10:58 AM
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When I got involved in 2005-2007 I started by attending Skip Barber's 3 day racing school then the 2 day program. And immediately proceeded to be very disappointed with my then stock Z3 M coupe. It ultimately became heavily modified - half cage, recaros, suspension, wheels, tires, big brakes, short limited slip diff, supercharger. In the end that car became too stiff too noisy for a Sunday drive and is gone. Now I have a stock 997TT I enjoy with a set of lightweight forged wheels. My personal opinion is it's boring to take a street car to the track dealing with howling tires, understeer due to alignment and cook the street pads and lay down deposits on the rotors. It becomes risk management for me compared to a track prepped focused ride. So the better options are Skip Barber, rent an arrive and drive car or go karting.
 
Old Apr 17, 2015 | 08:18 AM
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I had wreck at NHIS road course and it being a DE it was covered. Slight fight but it was. The PCA club wrote a letter explaining it was educational.

Back story was a supra was losing his radiator, and the corner guy saw the leak and didnt flag him. Why? he said he wanted us to finish the laps so he could get back on the track.
Supra lost the rad in turn 4 and was right behind him I was basically along for the ride till I broadsided the inside wall.
 
Old Apr 17, 2015 | 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Squat
I had wreck at NHIS road course and it being a DE it was covered. Slight fight but it was. The PCA club wrote a letter explaining it was educational.

Back story was a supra was losing his radiator, and the corner guy saw the leak and didnt flag him. Why? he said he wanted us to finish the laps so he could get back on the track.
Supra lost the rad in turn 4 and was right behind him I was basically along for the ride till I broadsided the inside wall.
Squat - can you share any small details on why your insurance company was putting up a fight?
 
Old Apr 17, 2015 | 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Burn Meter
Squat - can you share any small details on why your insurance company was putting up a fight?
Because one of the customer service people, a guy, decided that i was racing. He lied and said I said that, I had to get them to replay the tapes to prove he was the one that tried to tell me i was racing. So one person on a call decided I was racing and almost shut me down. I specifically put myself in the instructional group for that purpose.

This was not a porsche, it was my BMW M. friggin idiot cornerman. I still dislike factory 7s on account. That was his little ***** car.
 
Old Apr 17, 2015 | 08:35 AM
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Coercion...sounds like you could have sued (it's America, everybody gets sued)!
 
Old Apr 17, 2015 | 08:36 AM
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I never said I was racing because i wasnt. He tried to get me too. I probably should have. He was asking me all about the car and why own a racing BMW if i wasnt racing. Total tool. I would never pay the G insurance co again.
 
Old Apr 17, 2015 | 08:57 AM
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I've tracked my TTS on several occasions without bespoke track insurance. My auto insurance policy does not have a specific "racing" disqualifier (voiding coverage provision) but I fully expect my carrier to initially attempt to deny a damage claim for an on-track incident. I should prevail though given the lack of a specific "track-related" damage clause in my auto policy. My health insurance policy would cover injury, regardless of where it was sustained.

That said, I have seen crashes/wrecks at PCA HPDE events (we had two wrecks in the rain last week alone at Limerock in my Yellow run group!). A Boxster slammed into a wall (entire right side totaled), and a RUF Carrera misjudged throttle input on the "uphill" and ended up on its side (left rear and right side totaled, massive hole in the windshield). In both instances, drivers and instructors were ok.

The moral of the story is, accidents can and do happen at track events (there's a reason they make you sign a waiver), if you are not mentally prepared nor financially able to write-off the entire value of your car then you should NOT track your car. Similarly if you are not mentally prepared for, nor financially able to fund the added maintenance (tires, brakes, fluids, possible paint touch-ups etc) that come with running a Porsche at the track then please do NOT track you car.

If in doubt, obtain track insurance for the day for the FULL value of your car. Tracking a Porsche (any model) is about as much fun as one can have behind the wheel of these amazing cars, however be prepared for the worst and be thankful if you make it through your last track session without incident (not everyone takes their car home with them, in one piece)! PCA track events are among the best organized, well-run and safety conscious track events that I have attended.
 
Old Apr 17, 2015 | 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by TT Surgeon
Track insurance is a good idea, but if you're afraid of wrecking definitely do not go to the track. I'm not trying to be a smart ***, please don't take it the wrong way. In my experience at the track with various Porsche/driving hpde schools, the two most dangerous run groups are the green with zero experience and a fast car, and the intermediate solo drivers who tend to take chances.
Anytime I've ever seen somebody worried about crashing, they usually do. There's plenty of time and track days in the future, go when you're reafy.
I'd highly suggest you check out the Porsche sport driving school in Alabama, you use their cars, pro instructors, full insurance coverage, and see if you're into it or not.
Good luck
C
This is so very true.

OP, go and hit (no pun intended) an autox first. That will relief some of your fears. It will also improve your driving skills and reactions. Once you have a few of those under your belt, you will do a lot better on track.
 
Old Apr 17, 2015 | 10:27 AM
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BTW, typically if it is not a timed event it is considered driver instruction is is covered.

but to the original poster.. man you are risk adverse! A typical track day is many times safer than your trip to work..

There are lots of good reasons not to track a car, but you're the first to bring up those 4 as priorities!
 
Old Apr 17, 2015 | 09:30 PM
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My racecar was hit -- by a GMG WC-Turbo (highly modded 997.1TT) -- in my last POC event. The damage was minor but will still cost a few $grand I'm sure, all said and done, as the whole side of the car will probably need a respray. This was my first contact in 15 years.

As an aside, we had been running very comparable lap times and swapping positions back and forth, which reinforces how much power-to-weight, setup and experience matter. The contact was ruled the other driver's fault and he got a 13/13.

Stuff does happen. Many years ago I realized the only way I would be able to keep doing this in good conscience (and stay married) was to go to a trailered, fully race-prepped car with all the safety equipment. This was a very expensive leap but now I certainly feel better about my safety, and also I don't worry about getting the car home even if it breaks, or getting to work the next day. More power to those guys who drive their DD to the track, maybe change tires...or not..., and need it to get to work the next day.

Have fun and keep the shiny side up!
 

Last edited by cjcam930; Apr 17, 2015 at 09:34 PM.


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