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If you have encountered P0021 or P0011 or any other cam advancement errors or issue

997 Turbo / GT2 20062012 Turbo discussion on the 997 model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo.

If you have encountered P0021 or P0011 or any other cam advancement errors or issue

 
  #1  
Old 11-10-2015, 09:21 AM
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If you have encountered P0021 or P0011 or any other cam advancement errors or issue

I got the P0021 and it would come and go. I would clear it with my scanner and within a few hundred miles, it would pop again. It got progressively worse, to the point that it would be triggered with only about 5-10 miles of driving the car. I also noticed that my torque and power down low was a little sluggish, which is a symptom that the cam is getting stuck in the advanced position. At WOT, the car ran perfect.

My motor has about 27,000 miles and the cam actuator selenoids were still the original ones. Sometimes, replacing the oil alone can clear any debris that could get stuck in there. Sometimes, that is not enough and those puppies can get dirty...(I don't think there is any way of cleaning them).

I did a lot of reading about what could the the cause and I was thinking I would eventually have to pin the cams as the sleeve could have in fact rotated. I consulted with a good friend that is a great master mechanic and very familiar with all types of Porsches. He suggested replacing the oil (which we had already tried).

Then, he suggested replacing the faulty cam actuator selenoid. He warned me that, usually, replacing one could fix the issue, but if these actuators were getting a little worn out, the problem could be transferred to the weaker one, meaning to bank # 2. His explanation made a lot of sense, especially after he thoroughly explained how these parts work.

So we ordered one of these and replaced the faulty one at bank 1. After we replaced bank 1 (really easy to get to - maybe a 5 minute job), we cleared the code and the car ran considerably better down low. Much smoother and felt incredible. The engine light/error did not come back and the car felt awesome...but within 300 miles of driving the car (spirited driving, mind you), the engine light came back, except this time, it was pointing to bank 2 - -exactly as he had predicted.

Well, we replaced # 2. Getting to this one is a little more tricky. You will need some small hands and good angled extension tools. This side took us about 20-25 minutes having to pick up and fish for sockets that fell and having to work under a much more confined space.

We cleared the code and I have about 350 miles now since then, and the problem hasn't come back yet. The car still runs great and no engine light.

I feel confident this was the problem in my case. These parts wear out. If you take a close look at these actuators, they are driven by a huge magnet that opens and closes and regulates the amount of oil flow. The are constantly working on and off and on and off...they can wear out. I think in my case, bank 1 was considerably more worn than 2...and when 1 was working great, then the 2 was not able to keep up.

Each cam actuator selenoid is about US$ 250-300 per side. It is worth replacing them before going through the trouble of bringing down the motor.

Hope this insight helps someone.

Angel
 
  #2  
Old 11-10-2015, 03:34 PM
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Good info....

I have had similar results. Always worry they will go one day I have changed mine and was also told (by a Porsche Certified Master Technician)that since they work from oil pressure, that at times you may have dirt or other contaminants, and an oil change may help.

Another question I have seen a bunch is what happens if you drive it with the cams over adjusted/under adjusted? Again, I was told there is not enough angle there to actually damage the engine? Don't have proof....but once when I had the error (before) I changed the solenoids, I just drove the crap out of it and it went away for months

DC
 
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:56 PM
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Good info. Thanks
 
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Old 11-10-2015, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by therock88 View Post
Good info....

I have had similar results. Always worry they will go one day I have changed mine and was also told (by a Porsche Certified Master Technician)that since they work from oil pressure, that at times you may have dirt or other contaminants, and an oil change may help.

Another question I have seen a bunch is what happens if you drive it with the cams over adjusted/under adjusted? Again, I was told there is not enough angle there to actually damage the engine? Don't have proof....but once when I had the error (before) I changed the solenoids, I just drove the crap out of it and it went away for months
?
DC
same here - the cel came on one day on the way to the track and I drove the snot out of the car and the cel went away for a while.


I had my bank 2 camshaft replaced under warranty a couple of years ago. Recently the bank 1 cel came and I paid the dealer to sort it out - I was charged 6 hours labour for the camshaft actuator solenoid to be changed so I must say that if it is really a 5 minute job then I've been raped. There are a few different solenoids so I'm not sure if we're talking about the same one, do you have the part number, Tailwag?
 
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Old 11-10-2015, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
same here - the cel came on one day on the way to the track and I drove the snot out of the car and the cel went away for a while.


I had my bank 2 camshaft replaced under warranty a couple of years ago. Recently the bank 1 cel came and I paid the dealer to sort it out - I was charged 6 hours labour for the camshaft actuator solenoid to be changed so I must say that if it is really a 5 minute job then I've been raped. There are a few different solenoids so I'm not sure if we're talking about the same one, do you have the part number, Tailwag?
Well...Not arguing...But I cannot do it in 5 minutes. It is likely more like a couple of hours. I think I wrote up how to do it somewhere, but it is pretty much like changing the plugs to a point....Remove bumper cover, heat shields, intercoolers...Not sure how that is done in 5 minutes. Perhaps talking about the wrong part for 5 minutes, because it sits right between the rear two plugs on either side??

I just keep my fingers crossed that my cams do not actually spin

DC

Part Number is : 99610530104 Available online for ~$147 each

 

Last edited by therock88; 11-10-2015 at 09:11 PM.
  #6  
Old 11-10-2015, 10:47 PM
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My part was 997-105-303-73 and I believe it is at the top of the engine near the back of the car. Rock, I believe the part you are referring to is something to do with the variable valve lift. The part I listed is the solenoid valve for variable valve timing.
 
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
My part was 997-105-303-73 and I believe it is at the top of the engine near the back of the car. Rock, I believe the part you are referring to is something to do with the variable valve lift. The part I listed is the solenoid valve for variable valve timing.
Bogg, correct, the part you are referring to is the one my dealer changed out (per "the book" according to them) when troubleshooting my 0011 CEL. When it didn't fix the issue they had to replace the cam itself..
 
  #8  
Old 11-11-2015, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by saabin View Post
Bogg, correct, the part you are referring to is the one my dealer changed out (per "the book" according to them) when troubleshooting my 0011 CEL. When it didn't fix the issue they had to replace the cam itself..
Yes...that is the other part to check. I will try that one if my light comes back on before going full cam pinning....

Sounds like it may be a little easier to reach?

Thanks!
DC
 
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:21 AM
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I will post a couple of pics tonight.

It was 5 minutes in my car on bank #1...but, I don't have an airbox - that alone is most of the work. You have to get to them from the top - It would be impossible from the bottom.

The bank 2 is more of a pain in the ***, but, as stated, if you have small hands and if you make sure you don't drink coffee prior to the work, I think you will be good. - it can be done in 10-20 minutes tops.

I will check the item # again when I get home and post photos of the old selenoids as well. I am 90% sure it was a 997 hydraulic part though.

The Bogg is right...it can be reached from the top.
 
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by therock88 View Post
Well...Not arguing...But I cannot do it in 5 minutes. It is likely more like a couple of hours. I think I wrote up how to do it somewhere, but it is pretty much like changing the plugs to a point....Remove bumper cover, heat shields, intercoolers...Not sure how that is done in 5 minutes. Perhaps talking about the wrong part for 5 minutes, because it sits right between the rear two plugs on either side??

I just keep my fingers crossed that my cams do not actually spin

DC

Part Number is : 99610530104 Available online for ~$147 each

Definitely change the camshaft actuator selenoid from the top first. While the part is a bit more expensive, it is 50 times easier to get to and to change.
 
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Old 11-11-2015, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by TAILWAG View Post
Definitely change the camshaft actuator solenoid from the top first. While the part is a bit more expensive, it is 50 times easier to get to and to change.
I can attest to that.. haha

DC
 
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Old 11-11-2015, 02:57 PM
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looks like the P dealer did rape me then, lol.
 
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Old 11-11-2015, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by TAILWAG View Post
Definitely change the camshaft actuator selenoid from the top first. While the part is a bit more expensive, it is 50 times easier to get to and to change.
You have any pictures/notes on the process or how you accessed it? Sounds like you did it quickly....

DC
 
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Old 11-11-2015, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by therock88 View Post
You have any pictures/notes on the process or how you accessed it? Sounds like you did it quickly....

DC
I will post a few pics tonight when I get home. The piece is held by 2 bolts and then it has a bracket/fitting over it. After you unplug it, you will need a thick pair of pliers to jiggle it out. It has an o-ring which keep is very secure in there.

To put the new one on, you will have to use a little bit of motor oil to simply lubricate the new o ring. The selenoid actuator has a little nub on the edge/base of the part which will fit right on top of a recessed indention on the body of the top of the motor - this is to ensure it is being placed correctly. You will have to put a little pressure to make sure it goes in right and you will be able to tell when it does as you won't be able to twist it to either side as the nub would have been inside that indention. Once I post photos, it will make more sense.

You will then put the bracket/fitting over it again, and then put the 2 bolts (hex) back on and tighten it. Voila.

Bank 2 is more difficult as there are a few more wires and things on the way. It would help if you have an extra couple of hands to try to move these wires out of the way while you try to access the 2 hex bolts. The person that is helping you can guide as you will be reaching with your hands in there and you won't be able to see what you are doing. You will have to do it by tact and by feel.

Unplug, then once you get your socket in there, then the extension, then you are gold. You will have to do the same with the 2nd bolt/hex. Then remove the bracket/fitting, and again, use the pliers to loosen it up. Replace, lube the o-ring and install the new one. This is tricker as you won't be able to see what you are doing. It is best if you pay attention to the "nub" when you take it out to at least see where it lies. It is basically at "2 o'clock". Once you put the selenoid actuator back in, you will know if it is in or not. If you can twist it from side to side, it is not in properly. Once the nub goes in the indention, you won't be able to twist it and you are good. Then you will have to place the bracket/fitting over.

BE VERY CAREFUL HERE as we dropped the hex bolts 2 or 3 times and we had to fish for them. You will need an angled socket wrench with extension arms, for the furthest away from the back and for the front one, you can simply use an extension and get to it from the top, meaning from the crack between the open trunk lid and the panel behind the glass hatch. Again, an extra pair of hands will go a long way as one person can hold the socket to the bolt and the wires away with the other hand, while the other person can operate the ratchet slowly. Reconnect the plug and voila...
 
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:40 PM
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Ok...here it is guys. Here are the parts for the actuator selenoids and also for the o ring - just in case. I guess sometimes the actuators will come with the o ring included and sometimes not...better order them just in case:




This is what they look like. These are the old ones and you can still see some of the debris accumulated through thousands of miles of ownership. A pic shows the small passages for the oil to go through after the magnets open and close them. On the last 2 pics, you can clearly see the "nub" I was talking about, which is very helpful in lining up the actuator when re-installing and to make sure you are putting it correctly before tightening the bolts.








So...to bank one, as I said before, I don't have an airbox, so it is really easy to see and access them. On the close up pics you can see the 2 hex bolts...and the plate/bracket that fits over it to secure it in place, that sleeve goes BEFORE the bolts and on top of the actuator.






Here is bank 2 - also as explained before, it is much more confined. You can also see it from the top in between the trunk lid and the back of the panel before the glass.








Let me know if you guys have any questions...seriously - bank 1 is about 5-10 minutes tops. Bank 2, if you are doing it by yourself, probably a good 15-20 minutes. With the help of somebody, probably 10-15 minutes.
 

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