you are comparing apples and oranges!

there are only a very(!) few and very custom cars that use water injection (e.g. the quarter mile monster from 9ff)

also nobody drives with race fuel, but only comparable good fuel (like 93 octane).
a RUF RT12 for example would never benefit from Racefuel

also I never saw an EU tune with EBC.

that said I mean EU tuning is much more conservatively. Everyone fears to lose his engine or his warranty.

and at the end it is VERY dependent of the driver and his shifting etc.

But I must agree that it seems US HP-specs are always claiming very high HP for a given Kit. This may be marketing on the one hand and using very optimistiv dynos on the other hand, but we talked about that aleady...

(look at the specs of my car, it is a 540 HP Kit, and besides GT2 weight, it performs very well like many ~600 HP Kits I am reading from here)

 

Perhaps the American tuners are "superior" due to their 1000hp tuner monsters....

But I think the point here was just that the American marketing numbers (as well as dyno numbers that shoot high) and real performance seem to differ in most cases. Has some one experienced vice versa?

At least that's my conclusion and I have seen it when racing, mainly with BMW's and Porsches.

Still at the moment I would get a a $10k "700hp" kit rather than a €20k "real" 600hp kit...just because of the price difference!

Ah! I thought his car was a 700hp car, no it's only 650hp!? =) At least the signature states "PE700".... That's what I mean with marketing

His car ran 0-300km/h in 27.0 seconds with a normal launch, and that is still perhaps the only 0-300 km/h data from US...?

These are just some examples tested in Germany:

RS Tuning 680hp 22.0 seconds

Gemballa 750hp 21.7 seconds

9FF 780hp 21.2 seconds

(And the fastest Sportec and 9FF cars do these in well under 19 seconds (I've seen 18.1 and 18.9 for example)

So this is some data for you guys to think about

Those are huge differences...don't you think?

But yep, this discussion is almost pointless...

 

we are not tuners.... so when we run a xxx time it's on our hands if something goes wrong... not to mention the cost associated with fine tuning details... we cannot compete against most tuner shop cars... especially the euro cars like 9ff that cost $500K... for example, I still have a stock tranny.... stock diff... unlike a 9ff that probably has $50K into alone...
If I was a shop and wanted to market myself... I would do WHATEVER it takes to make sure I blow the doors off the competition...
markski

 

I have. I have numbers for RUFs that supposedly making RUF 590 HP running like they're only making 500.

Actually, Protomotive doesn't market their cars with names at all. The whole "PEXXX" thing was originally my idea, and the owners of their cars use it on their own. Different setups produce different numbers. But ya, I guess calling it a "PE700" is just as innacurate as RUF calling a car that barely makes over 500 HP a "RUF 590".

Regardless of which PE# it is..it smokes the RT-12..which RUF claims makes 650 HP. So I guess the euro tuners also play the marketing games you're speaking of.

Those are apples to orange comparisons. The cars you listed either weigh far less than his car, have less drivetrain loss, or make more "claimed" power. I don't see a full weight, AWD 675ish HP car listed above to compare his car to.

But...since you're comparing apples to oranges, let's use my old car when it was at the 950 HP level (with GT30s').

Unfortunately, I never had the chance to measure my 0-300 kph times, but I did measure 0-200 and 0-250 kph.

My car ran 0-200 kph in 8.36 seconds and 0-250 kph in 11.8.

-The 9ff 780 car (the fastest in your list above) ran 0-200 kph in 9.7.

Now let's look at the 9ff and Sportec cars you mentioned...

-The 2966 lb 802 HP Sportec SPR-1 only went 0-200 kph in 8.7, even though it weighs 350 less than my car did.

-Or how about the 3,090 lb 950 HP 9ff GT3RS GTurbo? The fastest European tuned Porsche on the planet? The one that ran 18.1 0-300 kph. It weighs almost 250 lbs less than my car....yet only runs 0-200 kph in 8.7 seconds and 0-250 kph in 12.4. That's .34 slower than my car 0-200 and .6 slowr to 0-250.

That easily put my old 3,350 lb car in the high 16 range 0-300 kph with only 950 US HP.


Agreed. Saying that Euro HP is faster than US HP is "pointless" indeed.

 

still apples and oranges!

0-200 runs done in EU magazines are with 2 passengers, 100% fuel tank, with no downhill, no race fuel, no EBC, 300++ kph autobahn-proven and no 1 foot rollout! That is a big diff.

When I do pbox runs alone they are always much more better than what I read in magazines.

 

WOW!!

Great explainations Scott!!

What im sure about it is we only saw those good numbers from Euro tuners in magazines or on T.V....Never saw performance box numbers or even a dyno numbers from Ruf , 9ff , sportec...etc

U.S tuners ALWAYS PROVE THIER WORK!!

One more thing...Why SOME Euro members registered in U.S forums and talk **** on U.S tuners and claim that they know nothing comparing with thier Euro tuners.

Also i noticed that some of those Euro members keep asking technical questions to mod or fix thier car so WTF!!!!

 

Can u prove all this **** above?

 

yes, we can!

 

My point in my couple silly posts has just been the experience on road with friends when testing different cars etc.

I'm very sorry that I have just seen some times how a xxx hp kit from US is not faster than a lower rated kit from EU....And I have been a bit like "wtf".

Then I have started investigating:

I have seen the different dynos used as well as I have compared what parts are changed etc. It all makes sense.

And when I have seen the price I am not at all surprised, the US prices are usually good! Who cares if a 997TT FVD 610p kit can be as fast as a 997TT EVO 700hp kit in some tests, if the EVO kit costs the same!
That's a theoretical example but even though the vast 90hp difference between those kits, about the same stuff has been changed, check this out! I doubt only IC's can produce 90hp
Anyway guys my experience is limited to basic bolt-on kits, of course the Protomotive monsters are crazy fast and can beat everybody

 

yes, please take a while and think about these essentials....

the answer is 42!!

 

Scott,

I think you should put a USA flag next to 6speedonline banner. Do you see yourself as an objective moderator?

You are comparing oranges with apples. 650-700hp us cars VS 550-570hp european tuners cars. Its really funny.

You MUST care what the stage of 997tt guru's car is. If you are a moderator and analyzing performance datas of the cars here its your duty.

So we can compare 1000hp 9ff car with AWE 700 kit, and i can say it can destroy awe 700 kit, is this a fair comparison? This is what you do here.

Hope this forum is going to be more objective in near future.

 

It's not important who cares what now, we all know that very soon he will have to care what stage my car is

 

Good answer..Kid

 

997ttguru,your car sounds like nothing special. Bring it over here and learn what the difference between the euro tuners vs american tuners are,or get some decent 60-130 times.When you start getting somewere in the mid to low 6's give us a call.

 

It's a must to teach you fanboys a lesson.. It won't be too hard